EpicWaffle

Yeah, it's quite lackluster to be honest.... can't see any good use for it

So sorry for the delay, but I had quite some trouble finding time for the report! The game went great, with a solid 10-3 for me. Amazing thing about the new upgrade is that you can play as recklessly as you want with Zipp, since you can always bury and summon a Bayou (this will also grant you an extra activation). It's also cool to have some bayous hanging around to use as exploding kamikaze thanks to poorly handled explosives (but care, because this will reduce the number of "jumps" Zipp can make, as he's going to sacrifice himself after that. Oh and I thought giving mood swing wound t had been that much of a deal, but in reality, being able to dictate your opponent activation order is quite nice (considering you're doing it for a 0) in conclusion, it's a great tool to grant amazing mobility and survivability for a master that really didn't t needed a buff in that department (which makes me wonder why they gave something like this to him), and allows you to adopt a sort of "Leveticus-esque" playstyle, where you go in, deals as much damages as you can, and go out without getting any "backlash" (here the mask trigger on up we go is even more amazing, because it allows you to use your 0 in a place where the Bayou won't die instantly). Only concern I have, is if with this play style earl is still worth or not, but I'll give it a couple of shots before jumping to conclusions

Didn't want to start off a new topic, so here I go I think that zipp got probably one of the best wave 5 upgrade which is the one that allows you to sorta turn into a green leveticus (I think its the "dreaded Porte zipp") I'm gonna test it tonight, so I'll let you know how it goes, but I think it offers a really really solid play style, where you go balls deep with him and gives your bayous (that for me are the new stuffed piglets) a 0 action This is the list, I'll follow up tomorrow with a battle report 50 SS Gremlins Crew Zipp + 7 Pool - The Gift of Gab (1) - Hovering Airship (1) - Liquid Bravery (1) Earl Burns (3) Francois LaCroix (7) - Dirty Cheater (1) - Do Over (1) Gremlin Taxidermist (7) - Dirty Cheater (1) Iron Skeeter (6) - Airship Spotlight (0) Iron Skeeter (6) - Poorly Handled Explosives (0) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3) Bayou Gremlin (3)

Seems good, can't wait to try it out any news about the ups for other masters?

Love how lately you can't start a topic in the gremlin forum without devolving into Cuddles etc.

@Omenbringeri agree with you completely especially about the fact that every time someone complains about them, seems to face gremlin's crews which always happens to have the perfect storm of cards and positioning (the slop hauler example is perfect). To stay on topic, what's your idea about the incoming ups? Do you feel like they're gonna bring some changes?

Don't kill @Math Mathonwy hype like this, let him dream jk, I hope too that she'll receive somethin good

@Myyrä good point

True that, but for two extra stones you get a taxidermist for that.. Still Wrastlers are probably the only thing I would buy (or the criers box, but not both).

That's the issue :| cursed swine are gonna go down anyway if the opponent want to, so I'd rather invest in something aimed to points rather than buffing an already buffed unit, I don't know if it makes sense

@Math Mathonwy feel free too, please, I was just putting my hands ahead just to not devolve again in the same argument that I think almost anyone in here knows and how trikk feels about Burt and co. btw great point on your post, I didn't consider that side of things about having something cool for someone, which would be even better in others, or at least not fully so kudos for that

Let's not devolve into another "Cuddle this and bla bla" galore, I wrote this post for opinions on gremlins and the new book, not balance issues (unless connected to the topic).

You got me wrong @lame0, my point was that I don't find it being worth focusing on sacrificing a Bayou to get some stuffed. As a matter of facts, I'm a big advocate for both playstyles since both are really effective, but I generally prefer to summon. Only thing, I never summon advise that turn 1 (unless I really need it or Somer doesn't have nothing else to do). if you were to bring 3 Bayou from the beginning you would find yourself having 6 bayous fully healed (with the help of a bug or 2 slop), enough number to outnumber any crew, scheming potential for days and Somer up ahead if you play your cards right (using his squeal properly in other words) ready to spend his ap. With your method, you achieve less models (4 bayous since you kill one to do the summoning) and a stuffed piglet, putting you behind in model counts (and a little in versatility since bayous potential through the game is greater, scheme/strategy-wise) but ahead on cards, which you could had saw anyway if you spent a soulstone/took "do over"/ hired Merris and used gremlin cunning. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and if it's working for you, it's fine like this, I'm not so good to say what's good or bad to a player who sure seems to have a good grasp about the game (and this is a cool idea to bring a bunch of stuffed out without risking your taxidermist), I'm just saying that it's sort of a "gimmicky" (allow me the term, I couldn't find a better word ) that in the end won't give you much more than you would get from simply bringing 3 bayous (and your investment for the whole mechanism is 15ss, which is 2 ss less than having family tree+3 bayous+ merris, and merris isn't a must). But I don't wanna side track too much away from the post, if you want we can discuss this via pm, my point was just that I value more bayous over stuffed, and now that they're on the same price, it will be hard to chose one over the other. Sorry for having explained poorly my point in the previou post

I'm having the same fear I don't quite understand what they want to achieve with gremlins. Even about the upgrades, my fears are that they will just make the stronger master even stronger, and the less used ones even more "meh" i might be pessimistic, but the more I understand the game, the more it seems that wyrd hasn't a clear idea about what gremlins need, while people are getting more and more salty about them, since this year they popped out from the shadows. Also, were still the smallest community among the factions, and spitting out an entire release of mediocre and situational models seems such a bad move even on the economical level. My hope were that this release would had been focussed on some tri-chi useful models, something for mah to make her work without gimmicky crews or maybe some new dimensions to Ophelia in order to make her more fun ad strategic rather than simply a small gremlin with a big gun. A lot of people I talked to about it complained saying "you're already a strong faction, you don't need more strong stuff" but what they don't understand is that you look at a faction that has 3 strong master and the rest is just on a completely different (and lower) level. As a matter of fact I don't want our strong masters to be stronger, but our lesser used ones to be better, or at least have a chance against the rest (like Neverborn, where every master is competitive capabl, even tho some are better than others). I hope wyrd will hear complains like this too, not only focusing on "balancing issues" based on complains and that they will take a pause from releases to focus on what they have that doesn't work. I really wanna hope that the new upgrades and gg2018 will bring a new breath of fresh air to the game, otherwise it's getting quite monotonous (if you wanna play competitive, which is for me the best part about this game).

No it wasn't this complicated, it was more straight forward, i ll take the time later to search it, and this is more "worth" for me, since a skeeter is much better than a stuffed (and you get one any way), but it's really intensive on resources and seems quite situational (even tho you might get some back out of it). Not a bad strategy, but with my luck, I'm already fine if I end up with 6 bayous turn one

Am I the only one? Yeah models look awesome so far, but I feel like I don't need to buy any of them. Maybe wrastlers, maybe criers if gg2018 will change toward their play style direction, but are they worth it? For me (I will avoid bokor because I don't play zoraida) none of the new models is filling a missing gap in the faction or at least, its not enough. None of them seems to do something toward solving our internal faction unbalance between models, where a really small pool of models (and masters) is way above the rest. A model like big brain,to point out an example, what's his purpose? To make Bayou reactivate? Bah, I can take two instead of him and it's the same thing, and for roosters it's not that much of a deal. I would see play for him only if I'm sure I'm against pandora ne I wanna annoy my opponent. The smuggler too, why would I hire him? I don't know, I'm not excited at all for this release. I played it safe putting in the title "for the moment" because the new upgrades will maybe make everything have more sense, same for gg2018, but for now, it feels for me like the "shifting loyalties" release, where all seemed neat, but when it came down to playing those models, they turned out to be marginal, or really situational (at least for me, r.i.p 40€ for the emissary). Hope to see some response, and if you have a different opinion PLEASE convince me that I'm wrong, because I want to pay wyrd's employee, but I don't want more "dust-collecting" models

Gonna try him when I get back home in September for sure. I always loved the model, and got really good results in my earlie games, but than left him behind when I took new stuff like Burt etc. With a skeeter helping for rams, he sur looks devastating ( @Math Mathonwy do you use d.c on him? It seems to have really good value on him, but we all know how contented is among the faction). I really wanna see what I can get out of models like him, pere and other that don't see too much competitive-love. Might be me, but in Italy the community is still on its "earlie stages" and I'm winning most tournaments (form 12 to 25 people) since I narrowed down my pool of models and took time to properly learn my masters, and I'm really craving that feeling of discovery when trying something new, and figuring out how to make it work, that I no longer get from my go-to models. I love gremlins, they're the best crew I've ever used and the most enjoyable, and it hurts me to see that I don't use so many models (and masters!) because I want at the same time to win tournaments (which leads to leaning how to use the most efficient models over th rest).

Cool list, how do you find yourself doing with Raphael and franc without any upgrade? Do you keep them alive with skeeters mask trigger?

I never used stuffed so hard, they simply filled empty spaces in crews for me, and the change doesn't affect me too much. I think that we tend to get used to a certain play style that seems strong and have hard times getting things back after a change (and it's true, we get hit hard, and our internal balance is awful, without a sign of getting better imo). My opinion on Stuffed is that they're good, but not essential, and they can trick you into thinking you need a lot of them but in reality you're hiring a bunch of annoying peons. Sure they do work well in a lot of games, but even when i tried to hire 6 of them (it was just once, forgive me) they didn't do much, they're just annoying. As a matter of facts they won't win you a game because they have no interaction in any scheme, aside from denying some for the opponent. In my opinion, the problem was that they got spammed way too hard, stucking players into picking from 3 to 6 in any list, not their cost. So making them as the skeeters (which can be deployed only in pairs) would had been much better. Now, I would bring stuffed only with Wong (I was bringing just two of those guys and I often use a taxidermist so it's not a big deal), if I'm planing on using a pigapult (again, with Somer saving 3 ss, since I used to bring three of those, its easy) or if there is head hunter, since they don't count toward it, other whise why would I want them over a Bayou that can score points and annoy annoy as well? I've seen a list idea on this post (sorry I can't recall who wrote it otherwise I would tag him) where you use a taxidermist to get a Stuffed out of a Bayou but why would you want that? The value of bayous is so high, I would never trade one for the other. I'm saying this in merit of my experiences with gremlins, but I really can't find a reason for it. Im not salty about it, since I never abused them (and as a result, it doesn't affect my play style) but I'm not too happy with the change, for how it was made. Now, we have another range of ss where one model is 90% of the time better than the other, instead of limiting an abused tactic.

Good take on the question! Although I find Somer way stronger, it's true that a lot of gremlins popped up out of nowhere since Zipp got released.

and to be fair, @trikk I respect your point of view, and your ability as a player. I from time to time read your blog and you use some clever lists, so you know what you're talking about, but I think that you have too much expirience as an opponent of gremlins, rather than using them. I bounced around a lot of factions, keeping the green guys as my mains, to see how other faction felt like cause I had sthe same issue you had, and that really helped me grow as a player. And another thing, I had the same problem you have with Burt with a&d: it's an absurdly strong model, and every time I went bananas after finding myself smashed by that thing, without me being able to do anything about it. So I went knee deep into finding a solution to deal with him and from there on, it didn't scared me anymore, not so much at least. Now, while being still a huge threat I play accordingly and try to keep up (feeding it smaller models, using indirect damages or keeping him stuck, with beaters etc.). I'm sure you can do the same with Burt (for example, isolate him and than take him down, which is not so hard to do, or keepi him busy while you rush something else). another example would be Reva, or Hamlin, or Vicks, this game is full of strong stuff that seems unfair, but none of this is unbeatable if you play better than your opponent.

As the other said, you should play a couple of games as gremlins. The healing is there if a) you bunch up (not a good idea) b) you have dirty cheater thr lighting bug works just for Somer, that's it. Otherwise is the most occasion healing you can find, and trying to bring it forward for more turns is really clunky. i never had a game where my healing was so astonishing that it prevented my entire army to stay alive. It makes it harder, not impossible I don't remember where I heard this, I think it was from an Alex schmid video, but he sudjested the following change to reckless IF we do need one: rekless is treated as a condition, where the more you use it, the more damages you get from it; if you skip a turn, the damage decrease by one. that would mean that if I use reckless one turn, I would get one damage,2 times for 2 damages etc. Imo, that's a good idea, it would distinct people that use it properly, and people that abuse it But removing the mechanic? No, I'm not on board with it. Or at least, if you wanna tone down an entire faction, well I have my fair share of shenanigans for all the others

I agree on swine cursed, even tho without the regent wouldn't make much difference imo. They're faster executioner, and they go down easily, but I concur that even reckless on them is dirty. No one complained about them at this moment with me, but I didn't saw it as necessary to put so much on a single minion in one go.

If you remove reckless from Burt, you can simply throw him in the trash. He has walk five and charge of 7, would you play him in those condition? Give him a decent charge stat and you can remove reckless form him, but I don't see how he's so broken. He's really, really good, but he's one of a kind, I don't believe you loose games exclusively because of Burt. I would also add that (and I love Burt as a model, so I use him a lot since the day I bought my first couple of boxes) reckless on Burt is used mainly to either scheme or compensate his low charge stat. In combat you can't say that it's broken having 3 ap, because it's full of models that get 3 ap while in melee, either with triggers or flurry. What makes Burt amazing imo is that he's so resilient, with the combination of slippery and htk, reckless is just a boost to compensate his charge and keep him on level with other models like francois. The main issue my playing group has with him, is that if well positioned it is so hard to kill him, but isolate him, and he's done (one solid hit and he can't use reckless). for merris, spamming reckless is quite useless imo, I generally use it to rush the center, and from there I'm really conservative, cause she won't get her wound back, and her 0 does enough. Also you keep citing rooster riders, but the main point of reckless wirh them was that it offered you a trigger to auto-kill the rider in case he dropped low, making it easy to play in any scenario, even against snipers (which now you can't do). Aside from it, it made scheming with a single rooster hella good, but on the attack side, they're as good as before (and don't get me wrong, I never like the models, and I'm really ok wth the cuddle since everyone was spamming 4x of them). The reason I don't bring roosters (and Alex explained it in his last video too) is that I don't wanna spend 6ss in a model that becomes uncontrollable with 1 hit (same reason I don't hire piglets).

So a lot of you are complaining about this, especially @trikk, which is not the 1 time I see him having issues with the faction (I remember him being quite heated on the stuffed topic too), and I would ask to you: have you ever played gremlins? And if so, How would you change it to make it "balanced"? because you can't simply remove an ability on which a faction is balanced on. what about other factions? They're fine like they are? Dirty cheater is too good and breaks the balance of the game? How about imbued energies? How about oath keeper? To not forget recalled training wiphich I find utterly horrible (and I play tt, so I use it too). Are they less powerful in their faction? Gremlins models are too cheap? Yeah, but Allison and phiona cost 8 and they could easily cost 1 ss extra for how good they're. Also I would add that gremlin players that win tournaments are not regular gremlin players, but really good and strong players, that happens to play gremlins. I don't think Alex Schmid started with gremlins because they were op since day one (and they weren't at all), and neither I would say that he's winning so much just because he plays gremlin. I'm from Italy and I won a fair share of events with gremlins, but I won my games by playing well my cards, not because of my faction. I don't wanna sound disrespectful in any way, and if I do, I sincerely apologize, but I see way too many complaints, and not many solutions. I sincerely hate Victoria's, cause they promote a style of game I completely dislike, as well as Hamelin, which I find frustrating for the enemy to a point that makes the game not enjoyable, but I don't complain about them because they're what they're, and removing what makes them strong would simply put them in the dust.