Actions causing actions. when a model is killed

[The Godlyness]

If this works then does that mean that when Collodi kills a model with Pull the Strings he can use the My Bidding Trigger to make them perform an action before they are removed from the table? -Aramoro

 

Also, just to appease you, I haven't seen any debate on Collodi's Trigger....unless there is something else that I have missed to tell me I'm wrong about it.....I WOULD say that Collodi's Trigger would go off first......considering the Trigger steps I quoted, and the 'Actions causing Actions' Call-out box on page 38. -dgraz

 

 

 

The Godlyness

On collodi's trigger its done after damage is done and models state is checked if the model is alive certainly it does a 1 ap action. If a model is killed how ever its not around to take that action.

Hahaha.....time for a new thread (or point me to the old one) because the Actions causing Actions call-out says that the original action isn't considered resolved until the new one is.

 

 

 

I think the main point of issue is the use of the word "Immediately". I've been searching, and I can't seem to find it, but wasn't there a discussion about "Immediately" not being the same as instantaneously, but rather after any automatic effects, but before anything optional can be added?

 

I think it had to do with Actions being caused by Actions. Or maybe I'm just misremembering something.

 

EDIT: Because if you remove the model "immediately" after taking damage, how can you then place a corpse/scrap marker before removing the model?-Morgan Vening

 

You can place corpse or scrap makers because under markers it says before the model is removed place the appropriate marker.

 

but under damage

 

When a number of points of damage is taken by a model, it reduces its current Wounds by that amount. If the model is reduced to 0 or fewer Wounds it is immediately removed from the game as killed.

 

so for Collodi the model is dead before it can perform the action. -The Godlyness

 

 

 

 

[Clement]

When is a model at zero wounds not a dead model?

It's dead, but the After Damaging trigger explanation very explicitly states that the model isn't removed until after the trigger fully resolves.  So the model that took lethal damage is dead, but we have to resolve the trigger before he can be removed.

 

Having said that, I'd agree with Aramoro (and many of the other posters here) that once it's killed, it's killed.  You cannot "rekill" the same model.

[HalcyonSeraph]

Now a more answerable question.

Collodi attack killjoy and hits him declares Do My Bidding trigger. The damage flip kills killjoy. Before killjoy ie removed the action he takes kills a model and heals him. Now is killjoy still killed or is he alive with what ever wounds he healed.

 

This is actually a good question. Took three pages to get to it, but here we are.

[Mako]

Hitting 0 wounds involves being killed and removed from the table. So he's killed, Do My Bidding makes him kill someone and get all his wounds back, then he is removed from the table as the original killed instructions say.

 

So, still dead.

 

Doesn't matter what else you do in the trigger period, once that trigger ends the killed instructions kick back in and he's removed from play

[HalcyonSeraph]

Hitting 0 wounds involves being killed and removed from the table. So he's killed, Do My Bidding makes him kill someone and get all his wounds back, then he is removed from the table as the original killed instructions say.

 

So, still dead.

 

Doesn't matter what else you do in the trigger period, once that trigger ends the killed instructions kick back in and he's removed from play

 

If so, that should probably be FAQ'd because it's not exactly intuitive or common-sensey. 

[Mako]

Seemed to me that its a two part instruction - killed and removed from table. There's just a pause in the middle (the 'and') while triggers happen, then the original instruction continues again, with 'removed from table'. Healing doesn't change the fact that he gained the whole 'killed' thing.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but that seemed the most logical reading of it to me.

[HalcyonSeraph]

Seemed to me that its a two part instruction - killed and removed from table. There's just a pause in the middle (the 'and') while triggers happen, then the original instruction continues again, with 'removed from table'. Healing doesn't change the fact that he gained the whole 'killed' thing.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but that seemed the most logical reading of it to me.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you, actually. I just don't think it's at all obvious that that is what happens.

[Malharath]

FYI, I will only be playing with Schrodinger's Models, to save lengthy discussion.

[Aramoro]

FYI, I will only be playing with Schrodinger's Models, to save lengthy discussion.

 

Pfft, there's no quantum state here, the model is definitely dead, it just hasn't realised yet. 

[Justin]

Pg. 32 of the big rulebook:

 

"After damaging: These effects happen after Step 5 and only if the target suffers 1 or more damage from the Action. These effects are resolved before the damaged model is removed if it was killed by the damage."

 

So, when does Collodi's trigger happen?

 

A: After damaging, but before the model is removed. This would mean the model could perform an action controlled by Collodi.