Adding Soulstones to the Pool

[Uktena]

Hello,

So the Arcanist General Upgrade Recharge Soulstone specifically has language allowing a player to break the 7 SS limit on the pool using it's ability.

The Outcast Ronin's Seppuku does not contain this language.

The existence of the ignoring the limit language on Recharge Soulstone would imply that abilities that do not contain that clause which add Soulstones to the pool may only increase the amount back up to 7.

Is this correct? If so, can we get an official errata if we don't already have one?

Thank you!

::grateful puppet::

[Mach_5]

Given that one ability has that clause I'd say you are correct and Seppuku and similar abilities cannot raise your pool above 7.

[Uktena]

No other opinions?

[edonil]

I don't have my book on me, but I always thought of the soulstone limit as being a 'during hiring' thing myself.

[zFiend]

I don't have my book on me, but I always thought of the soulstone limit as being a 'during hiring' thing myself.

Somehow I thought the same. But I don't have rulebook yet.

[Tuttleboy]

From the rule book:

"The Crew may increase the Soulstone Pool, at a cost of one Soulstone per point of increase, to a maximum Soulstone Pool of seven."

Seems pretty cut and dry that your maximum pool size is 7 unless another rule says you can break the rule.

[Uktena]

I feel like it's kind of a mess. The rules for the Soul Stone Pool and how it interacts with the Cache are open to interpretation about a couple things.

"The Crew may increase the Soulstone Pool, at a cost of one Soulstone per point of increase, to a maximum Soulstone Pool of seven."

1. Does this mean if you don't pay for this at hiring then your Master's Cache number is instead the maximum size? For example, if an Oxfordian Mage hits their Recharge Soulstone trigger and you began the game with a Cache of 5 and are still at 5, can you not increase it to seven? Can you increase it above seven? Why?

2. The Ronin's ability specifically says it adds "two Soulstones to the crew's Cache". It doesn't even mention the Soulstone Pool - so depending on your interpretation it could either add 2 Soulstones up to the maximum of seven regardless of what you began with, increase it above seven regardless of what you began with, increase it up to the maximum number you began with regardless of whether that number was seven or lower - but additional stones are lost, and lastly; it might just increase the maximum amount of stones you can have while not contributing any stones to the pool itself.

I believe that the intention was to have a Pool of seven, and only rules with the written language breaking that limit (like the Arcanist Upgrade) can allow you to increase above it. Hence the reason for the language on some cards and not others. I also believe that you can go to seven with any Leader, and the Cache is simply what you begin with in the Pool rather than it's maximum size in a game. Lastly - I figure the Ronin's card intends them to put additional stones in the Pool up to the maximum size of seven. These are mostly my conjectures based on playing - I'm worried that two players could end up arguing about something like this with good explanations for either side.

[therat]

I agree that it is unclear, mostly due to the different references to "cache" and "pool." I always thought the cache is what the master brings with him/her, nothing more, and that the pool is the total number of stones the crew had. Whether that pool is full or not varied, but the limit is 7.

If the Ronin's card references the "cache," though, that throws the whole thing for a loop. It sounds like it means to reference the "pool," but those words have never been formally differentiated (I don't think), so it's a bit unclear.

As it stands, the argument with the most weight is that a Ronin cannot increase the number of stones in the pool beyond 7 because there exists another card that explicitly states breaching the limit is okay for that ability and the Ronin's card does not. At the same time, it could be the devs intended the Ronin to be able to breach the max, but just forgot to add it.

The matter is muddy and would be an excellent inclusion in an FAQ.

[HalcyonSeraph]

From the rule book:

"The Crew may increase the Soulstone Pool, at a cost of one Soulstone per point of increase, to a maximum Soulstone Pool of seven."

Seems pretty cut and dry that your maximum pool size is 7 unless another rule says you can break the rule.

That maximum never claims to apply to anytime after hiring, though. Its specifically a limit on spending SS during hiring to get a larger Pool, nothing else.

[Sharp_GT]

Grrr, FAQ it! This needs to be defined, especially now that wave 2 brings more ways to dump SS into your pool.

[Uktena]

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?51071-Lilith-vs-Silurids-LoS-Question/page3

"it would be nice if the wording was more consistent. If we had unlimited deadlines and more man power, I'm sure we could have done a better job of combing the cards for this stuff. On the other hand, putting that limitation on also will make certain abilities totally illegible outside of the context of the game rules, making this game incredibly difficult to understand for beginners. Rules are written in the cleanest, easiest to understand way that still fits in the tiny space we are provided with. Sometimes, doing mental acrobatics to make sure they all sound the exact same either makes them too long to fit, or as stated above, totally nonsensical from an English language perspective (although not a game perspective). Given that choice, the English language wins, because it's what we speak."

This is a pretty important consideration as well, it might not pay off to get too caught up in the minutiae of the wording. Cache and Pool are almost certainly interchangeable, and that would make sense.

Allowing for some common sense in the reading, I feel like we'd all basically agree on how it works without too much trouble. The only thing I think that presents a common sense reading either way is if the "maximum size" described in the rule book is for hiring only or all game - barring rules that allow you to increase above it.