To Upgrage or Not to Upgrade

[Juaqean]

I am in a bit of a pickle. Here is what I own right now.

Jacob Lynch

Hungering Darkness

3x Illuminated

2x Beckoner

If I use everything, I can put together a 35ss force, or if I drop something out I can have some extra ss to spend on upgrades and to have in my pool. I am just unsure of what would be better with Jacob, the extra model or the upgrade or 2 with more in the pool. What should I do?

[Chargy]

You should recall that standard size games for Malifaux second edition are 50 Soulstones. You can have it all!

[Fetid Strumpet]

Or play with everything you have in a 40-45 ss game and use the extra points on upgrades and your ss pool.

[Alviaran]

Not only are the standard sized games at 50ss, upgrades are IMO mandatory. A Master should always have max upgrades IMO. Henchmen should always have at least one, maybe two. Enforcers should be strongly considered when it comes to upgrades (though are far more situational).

Similarly, I won't play the game without a pool of at least 6ss if not the max 7ss. Henchmen eat souls. Masters who want to get directly involved want the stones for combat, suits and prevention. Support Masters want the stones to guarantee suits on triggers. Suits and prevention are what I spend 90% of all soulstones for in game.

That last 15ss tends to get you most of those upgrades and extra soulstones. I might drop the third Illuminated for a little something else and some extra stones depending upon my declared faction (I play both Neverborn and Ten Thunders, so he is the ultimate crossover master for me). In Neverborn, I love a Tot in most lists as a really shift objective runner. It's super fast and easy to hide.

[Juaqean]

Oh sweet, I didn't realize that, I guess it was from an older post I saw the 25-35pt games for openers. Thanks!

Edited November 27, 2013 by Juaqean

[Cats Laughing]

You should recall that standard size games for Malifaux second edition are 50 Soulstones. You can have it all!

Depends on opponents and/or events, but you'll likely play games between 40-50ss, as other's have mentioned and therefore will be able to afford upgrades, more crew members and more cache.

However, if you do play a 35ss game, then you have several questions:

-What faction has your opponent declared?

-What is terrain and deployment like?

-What Strategy and Schemes were flipped?

These can all lead to different answers on whether you want more cache, models (or different models), or upgrades (and which ones).

Not only are the standard sized games at 50ss, upgrades are IMO mandatory. A Master should always have max upgrades IMO. Henchmen should always have at least one, maybe two. Enforcers should be strongly considered when it comes to upgrades (though are far more situational).

I think this also depends on your master, other crew members, terrain, deployment, schemes/strategies, opponent's faction and more.

My biggest blow-out (in my favor) so far was a game where I took no upgrades on any models and my opponent took max (or close to max) upgrades. I had better models (8-9 ss models) compared to his 5-6ss models) without being outnumbered and I smashed him pretty hard.

If/When you take upgrades they should be part of a plan for winning and not simply because you can. In most cases, your Master's upgrades are fairly important and you can run a plan around them. In other cases it may not be as important to load up on upgrades.

Per Wyrd (at least iirc from various podcasts), no-upgrades is supposed to be a viable play choice.

Similarly, I won't play the game without a pool of at least 6ss if not the max 7ss. Henchmen eat souls. Masters who want to get directly involved want the stones for combat, suits and prevention. Support Masters want the stones to guarantee suits on triggers. Suits and prevention are what I spend 90% of all soulstones for in game.

This tends to be something I agree with, though again it's a trade off between buying more upgrades, models (or getting better models) or cache. I think this depends a bit more on the Master's specific playstyle (and any Henchmen taken), rather than the terrain, schemes, etc... that might influence other parts of a crew/upgrade selection.

[M_Ruckuss]

When I play lynch I always take 3 upgrades and max cache, as well as 2 upgrades on huggy, and 2 on candy if I run her, and that's at 45ss...? Upgrades and stones are really important, especially for a beats tick tarpit like huggy...!

[bfrench]

I've been less inclined to stick with the old "make sure you have a max cache!" mentality that I ran with last edition. I've been pleasantly surprised at how well this has worked. I generally with have between 3 and 4 stones and this seems to be enough for me. I generally use them for card manipulation or damage prevention. Very rarely to add a + to the flip, and only occasionally for a suit.

[Mastershake]

Not only are the standard sized games at 50ss, upgrades are IMO mandatory. A Master should always have max upgrades IMO. Henchmen should always have at least one, maybe two. Enforcers should be strongly considered when it comes to upgrades (though are far more situational).

Meh, some masters need them more than others. I'd say Lynch shouldn't be caught without all 3, but that has more to do with how good and cheap all of his upgrades are. Henchmen can easily leave home without any right now especially with the crippling to Nexus.

Similarly, I won't play the game without a pool of at least 6ss if not the max 7ss. Henchmen eat souls. Masters who want to get directly involved want the stones for combat, suits and prevention. Support Masters want the stones to guarantee suits on triggers. Suits and prevention are what I spend 90% of all soulstones for in game.

Disagree a lot with this actually. the only reason i have a 4ss cache in my Lucius list is because that is his cache and I've repeatedly began and ended games with Lynch with the same number of stones. Lilith on the other hand I generally like a large cache for.

masters or henchmen that need to mix things up personally or need suits for their power spells like a large cache, the rest its pretty hit or miss how useful the stones are vs. just taking models or upgrades you need. As much as I like huggy, he's free and against Brilliant targets hits less hard than the Illuminated so it's hard sell to invest resources in keeping him alive.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I won't go into a game with less then 7 or 6 stones if at all possible because for the first 3ush turns of the game I almost without fail spend a stone to draw cards. Even if I get two bad ones and they go right to the discard it is two bad cards out of my deck. It is two potential failed duels I would most likely have had to have cheated first on. Getting better cards for the hand is so huge I highly rate any ability that lets you do so.

[Joel]

I disagree with the need to max upgrades - especially on lynch, he needs 2, Huggy doesn't need any but 1 is usually advisable.

It's very much model dependent. Some work better with max, others not so much.