hobit Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Hi all going to keep track of my experiences with kirai and crew as I learn to use her. used her for first time today and honestly didnt know what to do. Too many options I guess. But really enjoyed it a breath of fresh air after being used to Viks this is what i took kirai LL datsue desp merc canine remains 5 sheisin izuma went for sacrificing dog and merc, made a few mistakes, mainly burning through control cards and ending up with nothing left to use for turning izamu into spirit, didnt manage that whole game. Also only got ikeari off once and my shikome died real quick. learnt lots, mainly to prioritise what is important to achieve and not waste effort on getting little stuff to cast. izamu killed a rail golem in one turn which felt awesome. any tips feel free to chime in I wont get offended promise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Dont sac dogs and mercs. Plain and simple. Stop lol. Spend points on more useful things, such as significant things. I feel the base of any kirai crew is a 12ss base. Lost Love, and 5 Seishin. From there the options are endless. Now kirai does emphasize spirits. Normal spirits Kirai likes include Gaki, Shikome, Onryo. Non kirai spirits she likes are night terrors, drowned, and insidious madness. All of those spirits work great with kirai. By the way whaat were your strat and schemes? non spirit things that can work well with kirai are belles, crooken men, ashigaru, Izamu like you had, Yin, and possibly toshiro. One thing to remember with kirai, you have the power to out activate your opponent. going back to the dog and merc choice in your list (I'll probably regret this later but...). sacing things to get out more things is a lost cause really. You even said, you didnt even complete that and burned through a hand. Its just a waste of time. BUT! I hope what I said was useful in your kirai endeavors, shes a great master to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 why 5 seishin if you get 2 from killing the merc and dog anyway ? I'd start with at least one shikome as they tend to be rather weak without a prey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 5 Seishin. just out of curiosity, since i don't really play Kirai. Why do you need 5? My brother always did just fine with only 3, but i see a lot of people, including yourself, say she needs all 5. any particular reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriltic Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) You start with 5, Kirai sacs 4 of them for Shikome then the dog and Merc are killed by Datsue-Ba and add 2 back along with Gaki or Onryo so her crew goes from Kirai Lost Love Datsue-Ba 5 Seishin Desperate Merc Dog Extras To Kirai Lost Love Datsue-Ba 3 Seishin 2 Onryo/Gaki 2 Shikome Extras And for the cost of 12SS (4 Seishin, Dog and Merc) you gain 26/30SS (2 Shikome, 2 Seishin, 2 Gaki/Onryo) of models and so a net profit of 14/18SS plus a healing flip on Kirai from the Merc dying. Once you get the order right in your head and a solid plan thought out then the whole setting up your crew using the above list is actually really simple and effective. You turn a few cheap models into better significant ones and you are quick enough not to care about the loss of a turn. But as I said if you dont have it all thought out properly in your head it becomes a bit tricky to recover from a mistake so its all about practice. Edited March 6, 2013 by Kriltic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 so that is why everyone takes all 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriltic Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Pretty much, at 2SS each you may as well add the last 2 since at the end of the 1st turn you'll have 3 left for either another Evolve Spirit or two and/or as a way to protect her from harm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jross Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 kirai is alot to get used to right away alot of different options. if you want to sac things try it out and go that way if not then dont thats the joy of malifaux you can play the same master different ways. i have yet to use izuma but love the dead rider with her and hamelin is also fun. getting games with her and practice is key with all the different actions she and her crew can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherPaulos Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Keep persevering mate, it all clicks after four or five games with her. She is fantastic fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Pretty much, at 2SS each you may as well add the last 2 since at the end of the 1st turn you'll have 3 left for either another Evolve Spirit or two and/or as a way to protect her from harm. Yeah, that makes sense. For me though, as i'm using most of my brother's stuff while he's over-seas, i just wanted to make sure there wasn't and serious reason to pick them up before i determine if she's going to be my thing. ya know? thanks for the help! I know she has some pretty great tricks once you get the hang of her, but i didn't want to have a crippled experience right out of the gate only running 3. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 You take 5 seishin for a few reasons: - Kirai is incredibly suit dependant so you use them as absorb spirit fodder (i find i use this ability more turns than i dont, so I have the cards i need to do what i want, masks to into the spirit world, crows for ikiryo, tomes for shikome etc) - To summon other spirits (shikome etc) - To empower your own spirits - Against a lot of crews you wont actually get any spirits from the enemy dying (only get them from spirit, undead and living) - Defense - Out activating your opponent, dont underestimate how ball busting it is having your ikiryo, kirai and shikome activating and the opponent not having any activations to mitigate the dmg they will take or the VPs you get from doing schemes/strat at the end of a turn especially with the new gaining ground format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntereoVivo Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I think Blog is right. Wasting time trying to get a summoning engine going isn't the greatest strategy unless you're playing Shared Distract or Escape and Survive. It does however allow her to take Army of the Dead or whatever the Resser scheme is as well. That said, you're better off (imo) out activating and then positioning to do the most damage in turn two and three while building your hand. Kirai is SOOOO high suit dependent that blowing through your hand turn one can literally lose you the game. Much better to save the high cards for taking your opponent apart in the mid-game (which is when Kirai's mobility is best due to still having lots of models). Remember that you can take the Dog and Merc and use them, only to sac them later in the game. Why kill the merc turn one when you can blow someone away turn two before sacrificing him for a Seishin + Gaki/Onryo? Not only do you get shooting out of the Merc but you get another activation off the summoned model when it actually counts (after turn one when enemy models are in range). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) just out of curiosity, since i don't really play Kirai. Why do you need 5? My brother always did just fine with only 3, but i see a lot of people, including yourself, say she needs all 5. any particular reason? Because they are Rare 5 for a reason. Kirai uses spirits (for the most part) to summon spirits. Therefore I want to have as many cheap spirits as possible to summon other, usually more expensive spirits. This is how kirai was designed. a seishins job is to protect kirai and be sac'd to become better spirits. You can either pay 10 ss worth of fodder spirits (who are insignificant on purpose) to summon better spirits, or you can spend 4-6ss on insignificant models that are used to become spirits at the cost of activations, AP, and cards from your hand. Take your pick Also IntereoVivo.... exactly. Edited March 7, 2013 by Blog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 That's good to know Blog. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Donkey Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I don't see the reason for hating on the grow list with her. I agree that it's most likely a waste to just rush into it first turn; but I still think it is a good game plan most of the time, if only for the increased crew size. When you can turn a 2ss minion into a 3ss-5ss minion on top of another 2ss minion you are coming out ahead. That said, you should always use up the dog's or merc's activation before you kill them even if it just to take a defensive stance and pass. You get to add even more activations toward your goal of out activating your opponent and depending on the actions you take you might make it easier for Datsue-Ba to weigh sins both of them. You should also activate your Seishin before evolving them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Some people prefer that plan, others don't. I just feel that those who do miss out on how Kirai is supposed to be played (not saying growing is the wrong way to play) and waste crucial ap and activations in the first turn. Desperate mercs and dogs were created for a purpose. I don't feel that Wyrd made those models with the intention of them saying, "Hey, kill us". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog6750 Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 I definately agree with blog. I used to be a non believer (sac dog and merc for more models) but with time restrictions in a competitive game it is a waste of time on the clock, ap and cards. With my military back ground train hard fight easy. Ie get used to not having a grow list. By doing this you will find kirai is still far from an under powered master and in friendly games your opponents will like playing you more as well lol. The first tournament i ever played i was only getting to turn 3/4 on the average game. Even with out the groww list you will still have activation superiority. Why not try turn the desp merc into a spirt as well for s**ts and giggles. Having a seishin type model that can deal ranged damage etc is really fun to play. If you have izamu or something simular prioritise this on him. I take a punk zombie in most of my games. A spirited,empowered punk zombie that is swirled into melee to flurry @ 3x cb9 stikes i pretty insane there is so much you can do with kirai and co she is great fun to play so enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobit Posted March 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 thanks for all the responses guys. I am hoping this thread can become somewhere I accumulate my questions and ans, along with tips I pick up and tactics which work for me. had aa second game using same list,KIraqi,lost love ,izamu,datsu,desp mercenary,dog,5 shesin playedplayed contain power and chose frame for murder on Keanu and hold out game was great fun with zero vp each, I was a lot calmer with my decisions, decided not to kill things in turn one and preferred the room it gave me to summon shikome and ikera. most fun thing was getting all major spells off at some point, so got a bit more of an idea of what the crews possibilities r. also sprouting izamu was great biggest error was charging him into a group of three instead of the master which may have one me the game, just didn't realise how destructive he is. anyway sorry about my disjointed ramblings, just collecting my thoughts for future use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spifferson Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Best advice I can give for a new kirai player weather you are trying to grow or not. -Gather up your starting miniatures/cards, shuffle and deal your hand, then try to play out your opening moves. After a couple of attempts you should get the hang of what you can do with a specific hand and how it will influence your turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deezal Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Some great advice here, thanks! AS a new player to Malifaux and to Kirai I've got alot from reading in this forum. Thanks be to you guys who contribute Deez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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