Leveticus or Ramos for beginner?

[Gunner Recall]

Hello all, I am new to the game, have only played one match with the Rasputina box set. However, I purchased Leveticus today, and looking through all of his skills and everything, he seems VERY complicated for a new player to learn, coupled with the fact that my friends and I do not have a ton of terrain to use.

My question is, should I just tough out the (probably) early growing pains and trying to learn a tricky/complicated master, or should I pick up another box set and put Leveticus on hold? I am also thinking of picking up Ramos, any thoughts on him? Good starting points for both crews, and some tips or general description of what a typical battle will be like with each crew?

Thanks for all the help!

[Mister Shine]

Levi is very tricky for a new player to learn as most of his rules are basically throwing the normal rules out the window. If you're familiar with a lot of miniature games it might not be too bad to just stick with it, but it'll be uphill learning the rules.

Guild tends to have some of the simpler masters to learn with a lot of leeway for new players to make mistakes. Ramos can feel a little underwhelming without his avatar, but he's still a very good launching point, plus you can have a fair amount of overlap between him and Levi depending on how you want to play

[Gunner Recall]

Money is not really an issue with me, assuming that I grow to like the game, however I am unfamiliar with table top games, this being my first one.

You say Ramos may feel a bit underwhelming without his avatar? Is there any figures that I can get to lessen this feel, so that I will still feel competitive etc? Right now my friends Lord Chompy Bits feels unbeatable haha!

[Gangris]

LCB is one of those masters that like to break the standard game with his abilities, like Levi. You say you have Rasputina? She's an amazing starting master, and if you get the Essence of Power totem to go with her, she can deal a lot of spell damage. Things to add with her is Snow Storm (So good), Blessed of December, and Silent Ones are a MUST.

Ramos is one of those odd masters that really doesn't jump into the fray, he likes to sit back and make machines. His Electrical Creation is really good, and he can make a little cute spiderling every turn as well. The spiders can gang up with each other and really swarm over an enemy. I like Ramos, I just need my Guild/Arcanist pal to pick him up (I think that's the only Arcanist master he's missing) so I can play with him as well.

As for Levi, my Henchman is deciding to pick him up I think, and he was thinking of going with Rusty Alice, Ashes and Dust, his need for Steam Punk Aboms, and some other models to help fuel Levi. Not that terribly expensive for that list, but it doesn't include the avatar variant for Levi.

And I'm a Neverborn player, so if you want some tips to beat up on LCB, just let me know. I know how daunting he can be.

[Gunner Recall]

Thanks for the insight! I was also thinking of trying McMourning or Nicodem in favor of Ramos. I really like Leveticus's flavor, but I feel that before I can use him properly I need to learn the ins and outs of the game, or else I won't be able to use him to his full potential. So out of McMourning Nicodem and Ramos, who would you recommend?

Any tips for kicking LCBs ass are appreciated as well!

I don't own Rasputina, just tried a friends to see if I like the game.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Gunner Recall

[Gangris]

Personally, being faction pure is a bonus since you declare your faction before you choose your master in this game. And you get to see the strategy before deciding on your master, and so having a variety is beneficial within the same faction. You have Levi and Rasputina, so without branching out to Ressers as well, Ramos is what I would suggest out of that list. This way you get two Arcanist masters that give you two different playstyles and have different strengths and weaknesses.

And what does your LCB player bring to the table generally?

[Boshea]

I'd say go with Ramos just because I personally feel Leveticus is best as an expansion master than a beginning master. Due to his large hiring pool he is a great master to pick up if you already have a good number of undead or constructs. That isn't to say you can't start with him though. Focusing on a SPA list is likely the best way to start him out since it keeps your model pool focused, and gives you a smaller set of rules to learn. The biggest trick with levi is learning to play without drawing cards every turn, and the unintuitive nature of wanting to kill your master.

The Levi box, waif blister, desolation engine, ashes, and canine remains will give you everything to play a vanilla Levi crew. Possibly add in another blister of SPA in case you need to summon one before combining to the desolation engine. Not exactly the most rules light crew by any means, but its easier than looking at every option Levi can actual take versus his signature stuff.

[Gunner Recall]

Like I said, I don't own Rasputina, just tried her to see if I'd like the game. But I figure ill pick up Ramos so that I can have a pool of figures between him and Leveticus.

And he only runs the original LCB box, but it just seems so strong against other beginning boxes, but that's my inexperience showing!

[Gangris]

Op! Sorry, I completely missed that... Whoops! If you have Levi, I'd go with the list that Boshea listed then. He has a completely different playstyle then any other master in the game.

[Claymore65]

If you want to Play Levi, go ahead. He's a lot of fun, and while challenging, don't be so afraid of him to not play the character you think would be fun. Make sure to look up the Malifaux wiki and learn how to play him, but don't be too afraid. Ramos is easier and is in faction, but don't let that stop you from playing you're "ideal" master. I play Levi a lot (i'm a huge Outcasts fan) and if you go into him, I would suggest the box set, a desolation engine (makes the Steampunk Abominations much better) and a blister of hollow waifs (unless your group lets you proxy, in which case that can wait). For expanding, feel free to go into undead or constructs, but if you get some good constructs for Ramos (such as the Large Steampunk Arachnid and other units) it will be easy to start him later. Remember, anything you get for Ramos can be used by Levi (but not vice versa). So, I would look both of them up on the wiki and see which one sounds more fun to you. Both masters are great, and I'm sure you have a great time with either. You can always get the other eventually.

[Math Mathonwy]

LCB is tremendously powerful and his box is very good. Levi is also a good master but he is tricky to learn and LCB is actually pretty good at dealing with Levi (meaning that even though both are high-tier masters LCB is strong in that particular match-up).

Out of your suggestions, I actually thing that McMourning is the best against LCB. LCB excels in taking out key minions but McMourning is rather self-sufficient without obvious weak points in the crew, so to speak. He is also fast and very powerful in close combat so LCB needs to be careful with the good old doc around. Additionally McM's models fit both thematically and rules-wise nicely to Levi crews, so they can work together.

[Adran]

I wouldn't recomend Learnign Leveticus for soem one that is new to tabletop games, but it is certainly possible to learn how to play Malifaux whilst using him. You would probably find the biggest downside would be havign to re-learn the game to play with a different master.

You've been given useful advice on pickign up a master that compliments Leveticus, so you can switch the figures between the 2.

Construct wise there is Ramos and Hoffman. The hoffman box is probably goign to give slightly more models you'll use with Leveticus, but Ramos is probably a more similar style.

The otherPart to Leveticus is Undead, and Nicodem, McMorning and Seamus are probably the masters to look at here.

The McMornign box set is probably the least useful for Leveticus. Both Seamus and Nicodem have good stock undead models that Leveticus can make good use of.

So if you want a less confusing start to learning go with one of the othe masters to learn. Pickign one of the one I suggest will allow some overlap with figures, makign the expenditure more sustanable in the long term.

Ultimatly, its what you like the look of as you are the one playign it.

[Kalkris]

To a degree, I agree with Adran. However, as someone who started this game with a mile-long losing streak (which, playing pre-errata-Hamelin out of the box, was and is something I joke around with to my chums even now), take it from me when I tell you this: Some people enjoy playing entirely new games on hard mode, and those are the people who beat those playing normal mode to a pulp. And that isn't a bad thing, since it's a game and all in good fun, after all.

Levi has been said to be among the hardest Masters to begin one's Malifaux days with, but even so, learning the ropes with a Master with a high learning curve can yield good results once you know how to play with said Master, and even once you learn to play in general. And, don't you know, you learn things more often from loss than victory, so if you're on a mile-long losing streak like me in my Hamelin days, don't fret! You'll get there.

My advice to you? By all means, if you think Levi is cool, keep on using him. If you think you need to expand your horizons but want to keep it somewhat Levi-centric, as Adran said there are 2 routes to take (I won't reiterate too far - because Adran put it very well - but Constructs and Undead are your go-to model types). If you want to push yourself away from Leveticus completely, there are a good number of other paths you can take to learn the ropes. It really is all based on how you want to play your game.

I hope this helped a bit.

~Lil Kalki