Height: tokens, mele range, summon and blasts

[DeleteAccount]

OK, when a model is at the border of a ht 2 piece, if it drops a token base to base with it, can it be placed at a lower height or must it strictly be in base to base with the model?. When summoning a model base to base, can it be placed at a lower hieght, or must it be base to base?

When a model in said border is nuked by an attack that causes blast, can the blast be placed affecting the lower area? and since it's ht 3, it would affect everything in the lower area? Is the ht of the blast always considered from the lowest point it affects?

And finally, how does ht interact with melee range? Does a model at the border of a ht2 piece with melee range 2 engage a moder at the lower height? and if it's melee range 1 or 3?

Thanks for the help.

[Adran]

OK Melee range and height I can do

If you have a melee range of 2 and are standing on a height 4 piece of terrain you can hit a height 2 model standing at height 0

I think if something has to be in base to base contact then it actually has to be in base to base contact.

I'm not sure on the blast direction.

[Tokaji]

1) Depends on the height of the model and the token type. Corpse counters can only ever drop directly under a model. Treasure tokens, if you're height 2 and the terrain is height 2, can be dropped at height 0, I think. Basically think about it like this: If the model is tall enough to reach down, they can do it. This one I'm not 100% sure on, but it sounds right. I know for a fact that a height 2 model, when in B2B with H1 terrain, can place it on the terrain, but I'm not sure about putting it down from height.

2) Same goes for melee, but you're also adding the height of the target model, like Adran said.

3) Summoning goes the same way.

4) Blasts are always considered to be height 5.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Tokaji

[DeleteAccount]

The melee range is still a pillar, not a sphere, right? so it's very easy to attack from top to bottom and bottom to top most times. Blasts I thought were height 3 according to the manual, height 5 I believe are auras and pulses, or were those infinite?

I sort of applied that the treasure token was dropped like a corpse counter, but I'm not really sure about it.

[Tokaji]

Melee is a pillar. And you are right about blasts, they're Height 3. That's what I get for going on memory.

[Fading Memory]

Pulses and Auras are infinitely tall unless otherwise stated.

[DeleteAccount]

Melee is a pillar.

Just to be 100% then. If a model is on a ht 4 piece of scenery, my ht 2 model with it's range 2 weapon can reach it. Also, the horizontal range of 2" is not affected by this, right? Also, is LoS needed to hit something in melee? because it would seem sometimes a model would be in the building shadow and this out of LoS.

[Ausplosions]

Just to be 100% then. If a model is on a ht 4 piece of scenery, my ht 2 model with it's range 2 weapon can reach it. Also, the horizontal range of 2" is not affected by this, right? Also, is LoS needed to hit something in melee? because it would seem sometimes a model would be in the building shadow and this out of LoS.

Yes to all.

Except for the last one if you are Lilith.

[DeleteAccount]

Yes to all.

Except for the last one if you are Lilith.

So that would mean that if I'm at the border of a ht 3 building, with a reach 1 weapon and bellow is a ht 2 model hidding in the shadow of said building, I wouldn't be able to attack it since although it is in my engagement range, I don't have LoS to it. Right?

[Adran]

Just to be 100% then. If a model is on a ht 4 piece of scenery, my ht 2 model with it's range 2 weapon can reach it. Also, the horizontal range of 2" is not affected by this, right? Also, is LoS needed to hit something in melee? because it would seem sometimes a model would be in the building shadow and this out of LoS.

Your horizontal range is affected by the height for melee.

If you are a height 2 model standing at sea level with a melee 3 weapon and standing right next to a height 4 wall then you can hit targets within 1 " of the wall.

[Ausplosions]

So that would mean that if I'm at the border of a ht 3 building, with a reach 1 weapon and bellow is a ht 2 model hidding in the shadow of said building, I wouldn't be able to attack it since although it is in my engagement range, I don't have LoS to it. Right?

No,

Because if you are within 1" of the edge of the building roof, then you ignore the building's shadow.

[DeleteAccount]

Your horizontal range is affected by the height for melee.

If you are a height 2 model standing at sea level with a melee 3 weapon and standing right next to a height 4 wall then you can hit targets within 1 " of the wall.

Where is that stated in the manual? It also sort of opposes the whole "melee range pilar" thing people were telling me.

[Adran]

I'd ask if they meant a Doric pillar or an Ionic pillar.

And then look at page 40 in the rules manual.

Melee range isn't a cylinder for your whole height. As you reach above your head (or below your feet) you can't reach as far away.

[Paddywhack]

The 1.5 rulebook page 38 gives a pretty clear explanation of attacking from different heights. Attacking down a flat elevation you add the difference between the target's height and the elevation's height to the (horizontal) distance.

Ht2 model with 2" melee standing on a Ht3 elevation attacking a target of Ht2 would need to be within 1" horizontally to attack his target. (Elevation's ht3 - target ht2 = +1 to distance. Effectively giving you a 1" melee).

Attacking up flat elevation uses the attacking model's height rather than the target's, but is otherwise identical. There is nothing about melee having a pillar of any kind that I can see. I do not have my little rules manual handy. Really, its a very simple solution to attacking at different heights, just seems complicated at first read.

[DeleteAccount]

Well, I don't have 1.5, did read page 40 of the small one, but I'm not really understanding the examples...

[Paddywhack]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8683[/ATTACH]

 

OK. Does this help at all?

 

Attacker with a 2" range on a Ht2 wall attacks a Ht1 model that is 1" away.

 

They are 1" away (horizontal)

Ht2 Elevation - Ht1 Defender = +1 distance

Total distance is 2" - just enough to hit.

 

If you reverse it:

Ht1 Attacker with 1" range attacking a model on a Ht2 wall that is 1" away.

 

They are 1" away (horizontal - normally could hit)

Ht2 Elevation - Ht1 Attacker = +1 distance

Total distance is 2" - Ht1 Attacker will not be able to hit his target.

 

Or did I just confuse you more :Paralyzed_Puppet:

 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Paddywhack

[DeleteAccount]

I think I've got it now. Though one final question, if because of the height and melee range difference I end with a 0" threat range (ht 1 model, melee 1 attacking intending to attack something at ht 2) would it be able to attack if the models are in "base to base" (not literally, but spatially)?

[Ausplosions]

No.

[Kadeton]

This seems pretty simple to me.

Attacking upwards:

Measure the horizontal distance.

Add the Ht of the elevation.

Subtract the Ht of the attacking model.

Compare the result to the weapon's Rg.

Attacking downwards:

Measure the horizontal distance.

Add the Ht of the elevation.

Subtract the Ht of the defending model.

Compare the result to the weapon's Rg.

To put it another way, in general:

Measure the horizontal distance.

Add the Ht of the elevation.

Subtract the Ht of whichever model is on the lower level.

Compare the result to the weapon's Rg.

I don't get why this is tying people in knots. :/

[CRC]

No.

Why not?

According to the rules above, you have a 1" reach, and the target is exactly 1" away.

Also, page six says that "a base is within a distance if any portion of its base is within or exactly at the indicated distance." (emphasis mine)

According to page 39, Strikes target a another model "within range".

Therefore I would expect to be able to attack.

[Paddywhack]

If this is the situation you are describing:

 

 

 

Then yes, you can attempt a melee strike. As CRC said, you only have to be at 'exactly' the distance to count as being within the range. In the above example, you are exactly 1" away from the target and can just hit him or it.

 

Read the Rules Clarifications about measuring. Malifaux simplifies by using only horizontal and vertical (no sloping distances). This is for all measurements. Try not ot think too hard about it, as you can psych yourself out. It really is that simple. :1_Happy_Puppet2:

 

Sorry about the image - quickly made on paint (no photoshop for me...)

Edited October 9, 2015 by Paddywhack