izikial Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Ramos is my main man, always has been, he's awsom, and his avatar jus makes him better I have been getting into tina and marcus, marcus for he's objective skill, and tina for her ability to blow stuff up, but there avatars are jus meh, marcus needs to have multiple high tomes, and a good amount of ss left when he turnes, and even then he's dps is about equal, he's buff debuff similer if not worse, and his alpha strick stronger if he can use it, you jus feel like you lose out when he turnes. And tina needs to be up in the fight in her avatar, and just feels a bit week, she gose from being a stong caster to a week melee threat with poor spells, if your going to try avatar her you are going to have to spend a lot more on move than casting, so there for end up doing less, then when you do avatar you don't make up enough to compensate, its only valid on the defence, and in that case your spending 2ss just to try stop and enamy angageing on tina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinman Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) Tinas avatar is really good :] Also avatars arent supposed to make you 10x stronger and better, all the avatars do is give you more options and is a different playstyle suitable for different things. The avatars weren't created to be a super powered version of the masters, although some avatars that seems to be the case Edited August 4, 2012 by merlinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Tinas avatar is really good :] Also avatars are supposed to make you 10x stronger and better, all the avatars do is give you more options and is a different playstyle suitable for different things. The avatars weren't created to be a super powered version of the masters, although some avatars that seems to be the case Hehe just going to correct this part i think, Avatars are not necessarily supposed to be any stronger at all, they are just an extra tool to change how your crew works when you chose to so your opponent has more to worry about and has to be weary of when you might manifest ---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ---------- Avatars have their uses, and some more than others, but they are not supposed to be auto include:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlinman Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 by correcting you mean repeating what i just said lmao? nvm i see what i said, i ment to say they arn't and typed in are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Lol, yh I know there not ment to be, but I don't won't to spend 2 ss on a model that is going to punish me for selecting a crew that works with the origonal, amarcus can work with his origonal, crew, take a bod or a cerberas and 3 slurid, and they work with bothe marcuses, but the amarcus dose exaclty the same as normal but is more card and ss intensive, and you pay 2 ss for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAH Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I stopped paying attention when I saw you typed dps into your rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I stopped paying attention when I saw you typed dps into your rant. we all come to the hobby from different backgrounds, no need to be rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bashamer Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I don't know Marcus; Tina avatar is actually really good. Eat your fill on a master is a pretty sexy effect especially one with 10 wounds and armor + other random defenses. This makes her a great model to put on an objective and have it sit there; something the other masters in archanists really don't want to do. Tina is a more unique caster than a damage dealer; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaggisMcMutton Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Can't speak for Marcus, only have played against him a few times. Whether or not it is a fair statement, alot of people would argue that Marcus is a relatively weak master on the super-competitive scene. I would seem his best options are non-arcanist beasts. Again, I've never played him myself so don't take me seriously I have played Raspy for a while now, I would argue she is one of the weakest masters when it comes to competitive play. Having said that it doesn't mean she isnt fun to play. She can still win with a good mix of minions. She seems to struggle when it comes to some of the strategies or against some masters, but don't count her out either. Running up with a fast minion, grabbing the treasure, then running back while Raspy puts up Ice Pillars all over the battle field in between the opponent and my treasure runner, can be a lot of fun. Avatars are not meant to be uber powerful and an auto-include. Some of them, like aSonnia and aRamos most people would argue are upgrades. Most of them are more of a horizontal move as far as overall power is concerned. To compare avatar Ramos to avatar Raspy is a bit unfair. I also wanted avatar Raspy to do a bit more, but that doesn't mean she is bad either. Also several of the other avatars work best with different crews then what would be best to take with their non-avatar counterpart. One example is aSonnia. aSonnia can benefit from having fire gamin with her, giving out more burning counters, but doesn't have the synergy with normal Sonnia. If you don't like what avatar Raspy does, then don't take her in your crews Ramos's avatar is generally considered a good upgrade and one of the better upgrades in the game. Keep that in mind when comparing your experience with Ramos to Raspy or Marcus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I disagree about Tina being uncompetitive. She is very good as along as you play her right. I will never use her avatar as I think she should always be a caster, and have dropped many a foe with her, she is my favorite Arcanist master and will always be. And when I first saw her alt sculpt I almost died, I was never a fan of her original sculpt, and her alt sculpt made me go insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 I played against both aTina and aMarcus, and I see them as competitive. Played aTina with my aZoraida crew and was crushing her until she manifested and started blowing up models with her Shatter/Sword combo Against aMarcus I was playing with a Perdita crew and the same thing, was destroying his crew pretty normally then aMarcus came out and started Roaring. Anyone that has played against Pandora will tell you that falling back sucks, and she only makes one model fall back per spell. Imagine having your entire crew running away with the exception of your master. Because his Shikome now had a higher CB it started attacking Perdita like the end was near. So no after seen this I can't possibly agree that they are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted August 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 After a few more games, still feeling amarcus is a little me, I took him against guild, but the player took the hoff and when I did manifest all I could acomplish was jumping him onto the ball of constructs and chomping on the peac keeper, then my rn jumped in and flailed a little doing soome wd's hear and there but nothing notable, then I got batterd to bits, the only consolidation was the my slurids were of doing the mission. And the tina one I am coming around to, tina beeing the way she is (sitting behinde a wall/piller nuking people) then the enamy will send some one after her, manifesting right as the 2 necro punks got to her gave my enamy a real fright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Tina's blasting you. What do you do? Tie her up in melee to stop being blasted. What likes melee? That's right. aTina. aMarcus however is, IMO, useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geistwald Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 aMarcus however is, IMO, useless. Far from useless, just worse than normal Marcus in every respect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Far from useless, just worse than normal Marcus in every respect Nah, I think if you take aMarcus as a "just in case they bring lots of Living" he is actually really good. The main problem comes from most tourney players taking crews that can handle the "Only Living" effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted August 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Right, I have come around to avatar tina, I found by not making a list designed to wrok around it, it becomes so much stronger, jus make sure to only fill one req, or none and you don't have to worry about it, if it will be usefull then jus take some one down to 1 wd or what have you, it gives her a nice late game change of pace. Marcus how ever, I'm not seeing it,I have 3 potential solutions Buff shiliage, not sure how, can't be a trigger as it already has one, but at the min it is very naf, Second, take the discard requirement out of chimeric assult, I know you lose a lot of flexibility this way, but you gain so much more playability. alternitivly keep the discard, but do it once, and it last till end of turn. Finaly, remove his reliance on living modles, by making roar his power house skill he is so limited in what he can do,either you want to use it, in witch case you need rn's and shirkomes, so your own beast don't run, or you arnt using it, and then maulers slurids and cerberus work, and against lots of factions if you don't know for a fact what they are taking you can't reliably build your crew. Your oponant is playing guild, woho rn, shirkom and roar for the win... Ah he's playing hoff. Or in revers you think he's going hoff so don't bother, now you can use roar, but it will make all your own beasts, witch are right near by to take advantage of rise of beasts, and have lower wp from mark, run away Just some thoughts there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Marcus, you're not seeing it, because it's not there. The avatar is useless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserwithaplan Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 aRamos is a beast, even though sometimes I don't take him and run straight spider spam he is almost a have to buy.aTina I love even though I only take here when I take a winter themed list, with snowstorm, golem, gamin and blessed. I still haven't found a use for aMarcus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustcrusher Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I tried aTina this weekend. Didn't manifest until Turn 6- not sure if it helped in my particular situation but I did see the potential. Her avatar is insurance- if someone decides to shut down your usual offense by getting 'Tina into melee, you manifest and start with the weakest minion for shatter damage everywhere. I will agree she's not a near-auto-include like aRamos and aSonnia though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Marcus, you're not seeing it, because it's not there. The avatar is useless! As much as I love Marcus, I hate to agree with this, but I have to (and I know ukrocky loves him too). I was going to suggest he had a use as a paperweight, but the model itself is also disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izikial Posted August 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 See the reason I thought amarcus might be good, is because I was listaning to the aethervox, and it was an intervew with I think eric, and he said he loved marcus but feels he made him a little week when trying to balance him becus he loved him and thought he was cool so kinda over compensated, but he felt he had gone the other way with the avatar and made it a bit to strong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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