rsteelrose Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Does the Hooded Rider Receive cover bonuses from the crooked man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Triblayne Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 My understanding is no, because the Crooked Man is within one inch of the intervening base. But then everyone always thinks I'm wrong, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Forar Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 That sounds about right to me. I've been under the impression that the 1" rule was to allow for figures 'leaning out to take the shot' and utilize cover. Especially with only 2 AP, very few models are even capable of fully moving out of cover, shooting and moving back into cover unless they're fast, nimble, ranged experts, etc. Basically, it wouldn't make sense as a game mechanic for a piece of terrain to protect you (yay!) and make it harder for you to hit a target (if anything, being able to brace against something would be more likely to give a bonus, but let's not get too simulationist here). Also, I see hard cover (negative twist and armour) as 'taking the hit', or at least part of it a lot of the time. Unless you're trying to shoot through the wall, that wouldn't make much sense either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 nilus Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'd say yes, because a line from the crooked mans base to the riders base travels over a piece of cover terrain that is 1" from the rider. Technically that terrain is blocked from LOS by the keep but the rules don't take into account that factor. My understanding is the order of events would go like this 1) Can the crooked man see the rider. - Yes because a line from him can be drawn to the rider 2) Does the Rider get cover - Yes because at least one line drawn from the crooked man to the rider intersects a piece of terrain that is 1" from the rider. The keep isn't really figured in at this point. Note I am not considering the large piece of terrain as one piece, it would be several pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 rsteelrose Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'd say yes, because a line from the crooked mans base to the riders base travels over a piece of cover terrain that is 1" from the rider. Technically that terrain is blocked from LOS by the keep but the rules don't take into account that factor. My understanding is the order of events would go like this 1) Can the crooked man see the rider. - Yes because a line from him can be drawn to the rider 2) Does the Rider get cover - Yes because at least one line drawn from the crooked man to the rider intersects a piece of terrain that is 1" from the rider. The keep isn't really figured in at this point. Note I am not considering the large piece of terrain as one piece, it would be several pieces. Thanks, Does this seem a little illogical considering the crooked man would be able to "see" the whole base of the rider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 nilus Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thanks, Does this seem a little illogical considering the crooked man would be able to "see" the whole base of the rider? You know I looked at the picture again and I may be wrong. He may not get cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 bashamer Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) The following reasoning is wrong. it is from any point to any point that has to be unobstructed.yeah this one is a "no". the terrain does not matter in this case as there is no "intervening terain". You can draw los from any part of the hooded rider to the crooked man w/o crossing terain. Edited August 2, 2012 by bashamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Triblayne Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm confused. How is the "6 Inch High Keep" not intervening? One of the lines from the Crooked Man's base is broken by the Keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Swan Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 The crooked man would have cover from the Rider, but the rider does not have cover. The Crooked man can draw a line to all of the Riders base from one spot on his base, the same cannot be said in the reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 NeuroFire Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 How is the "6 Inch High Keep" not intervening? One of the lines from the Crooked Man's base is broken by the Keep. But he's within an inch of it, and the Rider is not. The Crooked Man would probably get cover in this setup, if something with range was in place of the Rider, but not the other way around. (Cover rules in this game are a bit weird like that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Triblayne Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Isn't that what I said originally? Yes, the Crooked Man is within one inch of the Keep. But the question is whether or not the Rider gets cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 yeah this one is a "no". the terrain does not matter in this case as there is no "intervening terain". You can draw los from any part of the hooded rider to the crooked man w/o crossing terain. Yeah, I don't think that's right. The Crooked man definately has a portion of his base hidden from the hooded rider. You need to be able to draw a line from both sides of the attacker's base to both sides of the target's. Or at least that's how I read the pics in the RM.. Because this is not possible, and the crooked man is within 1" of the intervening terrain, while the Rider is not, then the Rider does not get cover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 roboshmoo Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) The hooded rider does not get any cover bonus in that situation. At least part of the targets base has to be behind the terrain that gives cover or it does not apply. The fact that the attacker has part of his base behind the builing never even factors in. He has clear line of site to the entire base of his target. Edited August 2, 2012 by roboshmoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 rsteelrose Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 You know I looked at the picture again and I may be wrong. He may not get cover I would normally agree, but I think the rulebook shows an example that would explain it something like this... According to the similar diagram in the book the rider would get cover because the 1.5 inch platform would give him cover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guy in Suit Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 If the keep and platform are separate pieces (how I would play it) Crooked Man has cover and Rider does not. If they are the same piece (and not area terrain) then neither has cover, as they are both within 1" of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Triblayne Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 If the keep and platform are separate pieces (how I would play it) Crooked Man has cover and Rider does not. If they are the same piece (and not area terrain) then neither has cover, as they are both within 1" of it. This is also how I see it. Definitely with the keep and platform as two separate pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 NeuroFire Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Isn't that what I said originally? Yes, the Crooked Man is within one inch of the Keep. But the question is whether or not the Rider gets cover. I'm aware. And he doesn't, because he is not within an inch of the intervening terrain. You have to be within an inch of something to claim cover from it. Also, as I understand it, being within an inch means terrain doesn't impact that model's own LoS, so the Crooked Man's view of the Rider is not being impeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Triblayne Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm aware. And he doesn't, because he is not within an inch of the intervening terrain. You have to be within an inch of something to claim cover from it. Also, as I understand it, being within an inch means terrain doesn't impact that model's own LoS, so the Crooked Man's view of the Rider is not being impeded. I think we're arguing the same point. I agree that the Rider does not get cover. Sorry for any confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Cadilon Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I would normally agree, but I think the rulebook shows an example that would explain it something like this...[ATTACH=CONFIG]6736[/ATTACH] According to the similar diagram in the book the rider would get cover because the 1.5 inch platform would give him cover I agree with this interpretation. The rider would have cover from the platform unless it was decided by the players that the platform didn't give cover for some reason. You can draw a line from the Crooked Man to the Rider that crosses intervening terrain (the platform). ---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 PM ---------- I would agree that it would depend on whether this were two terrain pieces or one. I assumed it was two. ---------- Post added at 06:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ---------- Also, as I understand it, being within an inch means terrain doesn't impact that model's own LoS, so the Crooked Man's view of the Rider is not being impeded. it is impeded by the platform. Edited August 3, 2012 by Cadilon Changed to what I meant to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Hateful Darkblack Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 You need to discuss and agree beforehand whether the platform and keep are one piece of terrain or two. If they're all one piece of terrain, then no, no cover penalty for the shot. If they're two separate pieces of terrain, then yes, cover penalty for the shot. If you don't decide beforehand, then the rules are unstated and you probably need to make an agreement the moment you realize what's happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 egoon Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 If both models are within one inch of the intervening terrain, none of them gets cover. (RM p.15, Blocking Trait, third paragraph) "A model within 1" of an intervening base with the blocking trait may ignore any cover it would provide the target." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Forar Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) This raises an interesting question (to me) as to just what the limits are on what is considered "a single piece of terrain". If you built a 2' x 2' building in Terraclips, with a maze of passages within, obviously you wouldn't just say that nobody gets cover at all for any models within because they're all within '1" of the terrain piece', so where do particularly large pieces begin and end. Which then brings to mind the idea that you can blow holes through walls, which are considered to be 3" sections. So with larger terrain pieces might it not be sensible to need to be within 1" of a given section? Otherwise with a few minutes and MSPaint I'm sure we could produce some seriously nonsensical extrapolations of such a view. Edited August 3, 2012 by Forar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guy in Suit Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Wait, how is the Dead rider getting cover from the Crooked Man if the keep and the platform are separate terrain pieces? No lines can be drawn which cross an intervening piece of terrain... I stand by my previous post! ---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ---------- This raises an interesting question (to me) as to just what the limits are on what is considered "a single piece of terrain". I normally treat each breakable section as a piece of terrain. By extension this means that each wall of a large building is a seperate piece, so if two models are behind opposite corners of the same building wall that is 4.5 inches or longer (round the 3" sections to the nearest whole number.) then they would both get cover from the other. Please note that this is not official, but definitely works best in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Cadilon Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Wait, how is the Dead rider getting cover from the Crooked Man if the keep and the platform are separate terrain pieces? No lines can be drawn which cross an intervening piece of terrain... I stand by my previous post! From the diagram in the post earlier in this thread (found HERE), you can see that a line can be drawn from the 'top' of the Crooked man base to the 'top' the rider base. That line crosses both the keep and the platform. Cover is not granted from the keep because the rider is not within 1" of it. It is granted from the platform (if it is a separate piece from the keep) because the ride is within 1" of that. ---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ---------- Hey! Its like you're my doppleganger! Same number of posts and same join date! *grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Guy in Suit Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't have the book infront of me - but I distinctly recall that you draw the lines from the Attackers base to the Defenders. If any of them are blocked by terrain, the defender receives cover. Attackers ignore cover granted by terrain pieces within 1". None of the lines which would cross the platform can be drawn, as they are already blocked by the the Keep - which is ignored as it is within an inch of the attacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Cadilon Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't have the book infront of me - but I distinctly recall that you draw the lines from the Attackers base to the Defenders. If any of them are blocked by terrain, the defender receives cover. Attackers ignore cover granted by terrain pieces within 1". None of the lines which would cross the platform can be drawn, as they are already blocked by the the Keep - which is ignored as it is within an inch of the attacker. I understand that you don't have your Rule Manual with you. I don't have mine either, so I guess anything we say is subject to further review and revisions later. The rules require a separate check for LOS and a check for cover. This is done by a 'top-down' drawing of lines from the attacker to the defender. I am not following how the keep blocking LOS would somehow have an impact on the cover check. I don't recall the lines drawn for the cover check being blocked by blocking terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
rsteelrose
Does the Hooded Rider Receive cover bonuses from the crooked man?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
32 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.