Neverborn on a budget

[Boshea]

Like my Guild thread, the term budget is used lightly here. I guess "efficient first purchases" would be a better choice, but doesn't sound as good. Decided to do one of these for each faction after seeing Morella's suggested starting purchases thread. This would be the macro version of it looking at the best way to enter a faction instead of just a single master. Since I'm not an expert on every faction and master contributions are greatly appreciated. The main guideline for this would be the same as my guild goals. What is the best roster that can be built out of three starter boxes and three blisters. Sometimes the three starters and blisters may not be enough so an alternative cap would be for the final cost to be around $150.

Finally hit the faction where picking the three boxes may be fairly hard. The two obvious purchases are the Lilith box and a blister of young Nephilim. Everything else is more of a process of elimination. Dreamer and Pandora are both not beginner friendly, which leaves the options as Collodi and Zoraida. With Zoraida, the voodo doll is a mandatory purchase so there is blister two. For the last blister I'm thinking Stitched Together for Collodi. So for a final roster we have

-Lillith

-Zoraida

-Collodi

-3 Terror Tots

-Mature Nephilim

-3 Silurids

-Bad Juju

-4 Marionets

-3 Wicked Dolls

-2 Young Nephilim

-Voodoo Doll

-2 Stitched Together

Total 146

The only problem is since this was more of a process of elimination, I'm not sure how beginner friendly it is. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Korrosion]

I'm not a fan of Zoriadas box. I think the bad juju is mediocre at best and I dont love silurids. I think a blister of Zoriada, and a voodoo doll made from her extra dolls is enough. Then add Tuco for obeyed blast damage fun. Shake twice and garnish with Stiched to taste :-)

[Boscotopia]

I'm not a fan of Zoriadas box. I think the bad juju is mediocre at best and I dont love silurids. I think a blister of Zoriada, and a voodoo doll made from her extra dolls is enough. Then add Tuco for obeyed blast damage fun. Shake twice and garnish with Stiched to taste :-)

I agree that Bad Juju is too expensive for what you get, but the Silurid are too great not to have. they are a little boring, yes, but they are amazing for Interacts: not something I take every time, but an excellent tool to have in the belt.

Also, Bad Juju is fun to paint and is a good model to use when you are playing someone new - it gives them a really big target to aim for........ that they can't miss.

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 PM ----------

Also, since Collodi and Zoraida are the bulk of your purchase, why not pass on Lilith and get the four effigies, Spawn Mother, Weaver Widow, or even Pandora's box instead? Swamp, doll, and scary kids fit better with Zoraida. I say the four effigies instead of Lilith. They are great and can be used with Collodi, too.

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

Also, since Collodi and Zoraida are the bulk of your purchase, why not pass on Lilith and get the four effigies, Spawn Mother, Weaver Widow, or even Pandora's box instead? Swamp, doll, and scary kids fit better with Zoraida. I say the four effigies instead of Lilith. They are great and can be used with Collodi, too.

[Boshea]

Also, since Collodi and Zoraida are the bulk of your purchase, why not pass on Lilith and get the four effigies, Spawn Mother, Weaver Widow, or even Pandora's box instead? Swamp, doll, and scary kids fit better with Zoraida. I say the four effigies instead of Lilith. They are great and can be used with Collodi, too.

On the basis that if I was just starting out, Lillith is the easiest Neverborn master to learn the game with. Pandora is a fairly complex master to learn, as well gives a very one-sided impression of how Malifaux plays. Starting with Zoraida, Pandora, and Collodi with Stitched gives the impression that everything is heavily based on WP duels.

The problem with picking three boxes for Neverborn is that two masters are very hard to learn, and the models synergy is very weird in neverborn. The best three blisters for Lilith would be Young Nephilim+Lelu+Lilitu which would also provide good models for Pandora and Dreamer, but not so much for Zoraida and Collodi. Where with Zoraida and Collodi Stitched are good with them, but not so much with Lilith. There is also the problem of the three blister limit since two of the boxes have compulsory purchases. Probably the best option would be to drop Collodi for more models that Zoraira and Lilith can use since both masters have distinctively different play styles. In that situation the best option would likely be something like the following

Lillith Box

Zoraida Box

Voodoo Doll

Cherub

Young Nephilim

Lelu

Lilitu

Waldergeist

Tuco

147

Get both of the compulsary blisters for the two boxes as well as a slew of models that can work well in either crew.

[Korrosion]

Instead of the Cherub the Primordial magic. +1 card in hand and a 5 double suited cast.

[ilikepizza]

if your looking at this from an entirely a perspective of 'best models to start with' i personally think malifaux is better learnt using book one stuff, book 2 just changed the game so much and i think considering how different malifaux is to many other war games the transistion is easier if when learning just book one stuff is used. Personally i wouldnt really reccomend Zoraida myself, i just find her overall a bit underwhelming.

i disagree with taking Lilith out however. i think her crew is by far the easiest to learn for Neverborn and even if you then go on to do other crews shes still a valuable asset. and shes still pretty competitive too. I often run my Collodi crew with Lilith leading it - I find a well timed transposition wins so many strats very easily and when you have a df 8 greatsword wielding master on the playing field you can make it a damn sight harder for people to take out your marionettes. plus she works beautifully well as an anvil.

the models i would personally reccomend for neverborn are (inc. book 2):

Lilith

Collodi (and marionettes obvs)

Lilitu

Lelu (although begrudgingly, i actually think hes pretty crap and only think he should be taken if you take lilitu.... even then though she can heal herself 2 of the 3 wounds she takes soooo....)

primordial magic

terror tots

young neph

Mysterious effigy

Stitched together

Id personally reccomend a couple of the other effigies as well, my 2 favourites are the mysterious and brutal but i think the arcane is pretty good to (arcane resevoir is nice) and wicked dolls are pretty damn good to if you can get them to work right

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

oh and teddy to. but thats just cos i like the model http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/community/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png' alt=':)'>

---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 PM ----------

Instead of the Cherub the Primordial magic. +1 card in hand and a 5 double suited cast.

also just to point out, primordial magics Ca isnt double suited. I really wish it was though but thatd be a bit too good...

[Korrosion]

also just to point out, primordial magics Ca isnt double suited. I really wish it was though but thatd be a bit too good...

I swear my card has two suits on it... I'll check when I get home and update this post. Although it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong ? ?

[Joel]

I swear my card has two suits on it... I'll check when I get home and update this post. Although it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong ? ?

It is double suited. See errata.

[Rameses]

Ok well I'm looking to expand on my Pandora box. I've already bought a Poltergeist and Doppelganger. I'm looking to add one more "clamshell" atm. What would be a reasonable addition.

[Korrosion]

I knew the voice was right when it said I wasn't crazy!

---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 PM ----------

Ok well I'm looking to expand on my Pandora box. I've already bought a Poltergeist and Doppelganger. I'm looking to add one more "clamshell" atm. What would be a reasonable addition.

Have you considered Hamlin T.R.C.? He has cast expert and 3 wp based spells, one of which is obey, as well as a 6 inch "Nix" range of don't come near me.

[Rameses]

Have you considered Hamlin T.R.C.? He has cast expert and 3 wp based spells, one of which is obey, as well as a 6 inch "Nix" range of don't come near me.

Yes I have but I am at the point that I want to stay with in the confines of "Neverborn" atm. I'll expand to Hamlin after I have a core of "Neverborn" to try out.

[Korrosion]

Yes I have but I am at the point that I want to stay with in the confines of "Neverborn" atm. I'll expand to Hamlin after I have a core of "Neverborn" to try out.

Are the twins considered one clamshell?

[Rameses]

Are the twins considered one clamshell?

No they are come in individual clamshells but they are relatively cheap, so that wouldn't be a problem.

[ilikepizza]

oh crap yeh sorry your right it is double suited i just assumed when you said that you meant double mask tbh i dont really get why the primordial has that tome... is there any neverborn master that actually needs them??

[Boardgameguy]

Depending on the strategy, but I think the Siliruids are great. My group really tries to kill those things before I get'em running in the game. The leap action is amazing as well as blood frenzy.

[Boshea]

So been retooling how I approach this, and pretty much gave up on designing it for newer players. Still a good guideline to follow, but Morella's approach is better for somebody just starting. Easiest way to learn the game is to learn with a single master instead of trying to learn several at once. What this changes does though is opens up the options for what to take for each factions. Mainly masters that I didn't include due to difficulty are on the table for building the faction. The problem I'm running into with Neverborn Boxes is that a lot of boxes need certain purchases in order to work. Zoraida needs a Voodoo Doll, Lillith needs Young Nephilim, and Dreamer needs Day dreams. While Pandora and Collodi are less specific, they both need additional models beyond their box to get better results. So with my limited amount of never born knowledge, what is the best way to do 3 neverborn masters under 150?

[Korrosion]

oh crap yeh sorry your right it is double suited i just assumed when you said that you meant double mask tbh i dont really get why the primordial has that tome... is there any neverborn master that actually needs them??

I have no idea why that tome is in there. Not a clue. Maybe it was a holdover from v0.8 that was never changed and then was left in just to puzzle us?

[011121]

Personally I'd go:

Dreamer box + Daydreams ($26 + $9.50)

Collodi box ($26.50)

Zoraida Box set + voodoo doll ($22 + $9)

Doppleganger ($11)

Teddy ($11)

Arcane Effigy ($11)

That's only $125 (prices current costs on amazon) and gives you three masters. Collodi can hench for either of the other two. The stitched togethers pull triple duty and fit well in any of the three forces. The doppleganger and arcane effigy are great utility pieces. Maybe expand with an Insidious Madness or Widow Weaver and some Wicked Dolls.

Not coincidentally this is almost exactly what I have for neverborn. I chose it to give me a nice flexible base of models for not much cost.

Edited August 3, 2012 by 011121

[Korrosion]

So with my limited amount of never born knowledge, what is the best way to do 3 neverborn masters under 150?

Collodi box, Lilith box, Primordial magic blister, Zoraida blister (use the extra dolls for a voodoo doll), Young nephlim blister, the twins, tuco, Pandora box. Thats about $130ish I think. I'm not a fan of Zoraida's box so I recommend just the blister for her. The gups are subpar if not in a Marcus crew and JuJu is Immune to influence so cannot be obeyed.

[011121]

I find the silurids to work well without marcus. They're pretty much the ideal objective runners. Juju, while not earth shattering (no pun intended) is a very good objective holder. Unlike a teddy he's got some mobility by appearing where you need him, and he's got comparable ability to absorb damage (lower def but more wounds).

[nix]

I really liked the Guild thread that is similar to this (http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?32875-Guild-on-a-budget) and contributed some thoughts there. Based on some feedback I figured I would jump in over here as well.

Neverborn is much tougher to find an "on a budget" easy path into in my opinion, unlike guild where many of the models work well across different masters. Neverborn has a couple models that work incredibly in most situations, then become very compartmentalized as you dig deeper.

I also collect and play Neverborn in a different fasion that how I approach Guild. With that in mind, I figured I would look at what I typically have out on the table:

Lilith:

I am not a big Lilith player, although I played her a fair amount to start. I do not have a typical Lilith crew, but if I were to dig for a common one I would start with:

Lilith

Puking Snake or Arcane Effigy

Twins

Tuco

Tots

1 desperate mercenary

Dreamer:

I love Dreamer and I think his stuff is fairly well contained. Crews would include a mix of:

Dreamer/LCB

2 - 3 Day Dreams

Coppelius

Twins

1 - 2 Stitched

3 - 4 Night Terrors

Zoraida:

My preference with Zoraida is a grow list. Its also really straight forward, but fairly model intensive. There are lots of ways to play Zoraida, the grow list is just my favorite.

Zoraida

Voodoo Doll

1-3 Wicked Dolls

3 Tots

2 Young

2 Mature

Nekima

2 Desperate Merc's

Pandora:

There are so many ways to build a Pandora crew its silly. Pandora works so well as a "Super Solo" that as long as she has a solid crew behind her the game becomes a double threat. For a "Basic" Pandora crew I would look at:

Pandora

Puking Snake or Arcane Effigy

Twins

Tuco

Doppelganger

Collodi:

I really like Collodi as well. I think he works great under both Lilith and Zoraida. His box-set is incredibly well contained and then the effigies are great. My order of preference for Collodi is:

Collodi

4 Marrionettes

2 Stitched

3 Wicked Dolls

Brutal Effigy

Mysterious Effigy

Arcane Effigy

Hodgepodge Effigy

Carrion Effigy

So what would my buy list look like if I was getting into Neverborn as a new player. This is a tough thing to answer for me because I think it has a lot to do with Asthetic. In addition, everything will potentially get turned upside-down once the new book is released. With that said, I would approach it this way:

First, Pick 2 masters I like from the following sections:

• Either Dreamer or Pandora
  
• Either Zoraida or Lilith
  

If Dreamer, I would make the following a single purchase:

• Dreamer Box Set
  
• Day Dream blister
  
• 2 blisters Night Terrors
  

If Pandora, buy the Alternate Pandora model.

For Zoraida and Lilith, I would grab them both at the same time with the following purchase:

• Alternate Zoraida
  
• Voodoo Doll Blister
  
• Lilith Starter box
  
• Young Nephilim Blister
  
• Mature Nephilim blister
  
• 2 Desperate Mercenary Blisters
  

After this, my order of purchase would probably be as follows:

• Collodi Box Set
  
• Puking Snake
  
• Twins (Lelu and Lilitu at the same time, 2 blisters)
  
• Tuco
  
• Brutal Effigy
  
• Arcane Effigy
  
• Doppelganger
  
• Nekima
  
• Mysterious Effigy
  
• Avatar Zoraida
  
• Hodgepodge Effigy
  
• Carrion Effigy
  

Now, I know there are specific models missing from this list that I expect people will comment on.

• Slurids - I do not use Slurids but I hear they are good
  
• Hooded Rider - I have not used the Hooded Rider much. He is good but not in my immediate list as I feel the above choices are better than he is
  
• Kade - I love Baby Kade, and would pick him up somewhere along the way. He would not be an immediate focus however.
  
• Black Blood Shaman - I know lots of people that use the BBS with their grow lists. I use Nekima because in my experience she works better than the shaman.
  

At this time, there are models that I do not see on the table.... ever really. They may pop up in a non-serious game but certainly its incredibly rare:

• Alps - the errata really made these guys questionably-useful at best
  
• Sorrows - they can be interesting with Pandora, but not great.
  
• Cherub & Poltergeist - There are uses for these totems, but they are very specific and not useful enough for putting in a general buy list.
  

So, those are just my opinions, take them how you will.

[Korrosion]

• Alps - the errata really made these guys questionably-useful at best
  

How often if ever do you bring out an alp from copelious?

[nix]

I have brought out a total of 1 alps 1 time from Coppelius since the Errata. It was a bad move, as the eyeball would have been better served to provide Coppelius healing at a later turn.

I really liked the Alps, but making them insignificant really hurt their usefulness.

[Boshea]

Solid stuff nix. Confirms a lot of conclusions I had with Neverborn. Mainly with Lilith, Dreamer, and Collodi needing specific purchases and Zoraida/Pandora working well with almost anything.

[Malersatz]

As an alternate consideration Zorida can hire models from across the range so in my opinion could be given higher newbie consideration depending on what drew the player to the game initially, especially if they are more of a collector type. The whole "3 starters 3 blisters" idea really is too restricting as neverborn really are more of a progression faction when you get into them.

I like most of what Nix had to say except his points on Pandora/Sorrows, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I would say start with a Zorida or Colladi crew as they will teach you a broader spectrum of the game from movement shinnanigans to board/deck control. They also synergize well so that's a bonus.

If you wanted to go a different route Dreamer really is not as hard to learn as people make him out to be, especially due to resources like PullMyFinger and Karn's tactica. The models you take in his crews synergize well with most of the other masters also depending on your preferences on how to run masters but are a good addition to most crews outside of a grow list.

I could mention specific models but I feel that was covered fairly well above. I'm mostly just confirming what's already been said.