Hoffman starting / expanding

[WarlockFiretop]

My first post! Like many new players, I've been lurking this forum for a while, have bought a starter box, and want some moral support.

:rams I've got the Hoffman starter box - Guardian, Watcher, Hunter - and a Peacekeeper. That's 25 points.

I'm happy with this 25pt core, because it's fast for scenarios with objectives, is synergistic with Hoffman, and has combined arms. I'm hoping to use this as the basis of a 35pt toolbox list that can be added to to deal with whatever comes my way.

:tomes :masks For playing against magic-users - Arcanists and Neverborn - I've bought a blister of 3 Witchling Stalkers. I'm planning to drop the Hunter (6pt), and add 3x Stalkers (12pt). That leaves me with 4SS for my cache, or maybe I'll take a Mobile Toolkit (4pt).

:crows For playing against Resurrectionists, do I need anything? An Exorcist (6pt) and Mobile Toolkit (4pt) would bring me up to 35pt, but do I actually need to worry about undead when I have a crew of non-living constructs?

:rams Maybe I could just branch out into generic Guild, with an Austringer (5pt) and a Warden (5pt)? This would augment my ranged game, which I prefer, and allow me to expand into a Lucius Guardsman crew, which I love thematically.

[Iron Skies]

You have a good start there. Personally I prefer to use Hoffmans own totem as having the ability to ignore the negative repercussions of Feedback has saved me several times.

So long as you're not playing against Kirai having what you have is fine against Ressers. I'd also drop the Hunter in your lists as to me it's not worth 6 stones.

Hoffman doesn't actually need a big cache as he's usually machine puppeting so unless he targets himself with it he cannot stone the flips.

[Gruesome]

I do not play hoffman... But he has become my son's favorite master.

So, speaking from the other side of the table as a rezzer...

While I like the exorcist and usually prioritize killing it when my son takes it with with LadyJ, Perdita or sonnia, I do not think I would glance at it with Hoffman. In fact, I do not think he has ever taken it with Hoffman. Sticking to his strengths means constructs, and the ones my son seems to take are almost all Immune to Influence, so I have much bigger problems than what the exorcist brings to the table.

I seldom play Kirai, but he might be a bit better against her because of the granting of magic weapon.

Whats cool against Kirai though is the emergence of the oft-maligned Hunter. Against your list, I love getting the peacekeeper off the table ASAP. And when Kirai wants something dead, that means Deadly Little Miho... I mean, Shikome-Missile!

The Hunter is so cool against her because he targets her with that annoying "move when she moves" thing and just sticks to her and since her prey is not Hunter, she cannot touch him. So, you COULD target the hunter, but that gives the Hoff the opportunity to do all sorts of other nasty things to her. If Hunter can shut down Shikome, its well worth its points.

I just love when a model like that can shine...

His blast suppression is pretty great against nukers and he is very survivable.

All the immune to influence stuff really shuts down Nicodem and even trying to bounce decay blasts off my own models just gets suppressed.

aSeamus is still money when he gets close, except for THE WATCHER!!!! I hate that model. If it takes away his terrifying for any round in which the Hoff is near him with peacekeeper, he is dead.

Kirai is still pretty good for me, although if Shikome can get shut down, it is a challenge.

Some of her spirits ignore armor though, so she is pretty tough. Maybe an Exorcist for magic weapons? But, I dunno... Not played her enough to give my son opportunity to try to beat her with Hoffman. (I put her away for a bit because he cannot beat her yet, so we are taking a break from her)

McMourning... is awesome... Always...

Constructs? Don't care, still gets body parts. he is my preferred master against the Hoff

and the one that I think warrants special attention. His ignoring armor is just brutal, so if he gets the jump on your peacekeeper, you will probably lose.

I did lose my very first game against my son with The Hoff vs. McMourning... I think that I was too obsessed with trying to get my manifest requirements and let PeaceKeeper and Hoffman machinepuppet him to death after he won initiative on a later round. Since then, McMourning just tears everything up.

[WarlockFiretop]

You have a good start there.

Hopefully I can get by with this core for the time being! For casual play at my LGS, I don't want to just bring out Sonnia against Arcanists, Justice against Ressurectionists: too cheesy. Maybe I'll pick up Sonnia and Justice, but use them with this core crew. I'm hoping to totally avoid the Ortegas for reasons of cheese.

Personally I prefer to use Hoffmans own totem as having the ability to ignore the negative repercussions of Feedback has saved me several times.

I can't decide with between the Mechanical Attendant and the Mobile Toolkit. For 4 points, I'd always be tempted to take a relevant minion instead (Guardsman, Stalker etc.).

So long as you're not playing against Kirai having what you have is fine against Ressers. I'd also drop the Hunter in your lists as to me it's not worth 6 stones.

Ha! That's the opposite of what the next guy says: if playing against Kirai, bring the Hunter!

Hoffman doesn't actually need a big cache as he's usually machine puppeting so unless he targets himself with it he cannot stone the flips.

More models appeals to me. Especially with these expensive constructs.

---------- Post added at 04:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 AM ----------

While I like the exorcist and usually prioritize killing it when my son takes it with with LadyJ, Perdita or sonnia, I do not think I would glance at it with Hoffman. In fact, I do not think he has ever taken it with Hoffman. Sticking to his strengths means constructs, and the ones my son seems to take are almost all Immune to Influence, so I have much bigger problems than what the exorcist brings to the table.

This is what I hoped. I'd rather play defensive with big metal robots who can't be influenced, than aggressive with some squishy human with a crucifix.

Whats cool against Kirai though is the emergence of the oft-maligned Hunter. [...] The Hunter is so cool against her because he targets her with that annoying "move when she moves" thing and just sticks to her and since her prey is not Hunter, she cannot touch him. [...] I just love when a model like that can shine...

Interesting. Maybe I won't break my Hunter up for scrap tokens just yet... and I've got the Stalkers for magic weapons, so that's okay.

McMourning... is awesome... Always... Constructs? Don't care, still gets body parts. he is my preferred master against the Hoff and the one that I think warrants special attention.

Bah! This is good stuff, I want to know my bad match-ups. So McMourning is good against high armour, and can use even my construct models for body parts? It looks like I need to take out McMourning himself, leaving his crew unsupported.

Reading PullMyFinger, I see that he's easily frightened, so maybe I could get set Lucius (Terrifying) on him. Could Sonnia help?

As a McMourning player, what kind of mechanics or playstyle you afraid of?

[Iron Skies]

Another point I'll make for the attendant is it is significant! Dun Dun DUUUUUN!

[Gruesome]

Interesting. Maybe I won't break my Hunter up for scrap tokens just yet... and I've got the Stalkers for magic weapons, so that's okay.

I can understand the general opinions of the Hunter though. We have struggled to make him worth his points. Shikome just brings a unique blend of moving often and not being able to hit things that she does not have as prey, so Hunter's ability to move with her happens to be a really nice niche use.

As a McMourning player, what kind of mechanics or playstyle you afraid of?

I am newer to McMourning than many here, but I have seen little that I am really afraid of with him that is unique to him.

Like anyone, I do not want to be in the open against Perdita and I CERTAINLY do not want to be in melee with LadyJ when she has the initiative, etc...

I cannot really point to one thing as a true weakness with him. He is fast, hits like a truck and most of his abilities target things that there are not immunities to. (ie. unlike many of the other rezzers, he does not need you to be alive or susceptible to WP duels)

[EnternalVoid]

One thing to keep in mind is the Shikome missile has been reduced a bit as it no longer picks a prey automatically when summoned. This means it can't automatically start going after its target the turn it is summoned with prey bonuses. This makes the Hunter's use here a little less important.

I think you are better off with the Warden when it comes out then a hunter, the threat of paralyze on one of its weapon plus machine puppet makes it kind of threatening. Plus I would feel better sending it out to handle a side mission then the hunter.

[osoi]

Shikome cant be affected by slow or paralyze though

[EnternalVoid]

Shikome cant be affected by slow or paralyze though

I was talking about more in general or going solo on things thus why it was a seperate paragraph more, not the shikome at that point. Honestly with the change to summoned Shikome and prey I don't see them being as much of a threat unless they brought one from the get go so it had prey or they summoned it way early and used its ability to pick a new prey *but again it is not a shikome bullet at this point as it can't be summoned and go to town the same turn as before*

One of the key problems with Hoffman is he works best with strategies that don't require him to break his rank generally. He wants to keep his Peacekeeper, Guardian, and Totem with him pretty much all the time. And while the watcher is great at being fast and slick, it can't pick a fight. A terror tot vs a Watcher; Watcher Loses. Some people use to try using the Hunter for those cases where you needed to send a model off for a reason, but from all I heard it never really mounted up. The Warden I think could be alright for this, as it can be fairly quick, and with the possibility of paralyze good at pinning a model down on the outskirts of the main fight. It can even skirt Hoffman's fight so it can have a well placed Machine Puppet shot or two.

[dunce002917]

Hmm.. against ressers or anyone who uses counters, just have something that eliminates corpse and scrap counters. Corpse counters not as much for obvious reasons. But against Ramos, you will need something that either blows up the counters (Hoffman has that) or simply wipes it out of the board.

This way, you can starve the other master of their tools... less spiders and undead minions.

My buddy who plays Kirai end up using his own minions to fuel Kirai's Spirit spam...

[WarlockFiretop]

Hmm, thanks guys. Sounds like I can counter Ramos and McMourning with Hoffman by detonating any scrap counters I produce.

So far I'm looking at the following all-rounder 35 point list:

Guardian

Peacekeeper

Watcher x2

Witchling Stalker x3

Then Hoffman for objective scenarios, and Sonnia (alt sculpt) for damage-dealing scenarios.

Edited July 10, 2012 by WarlockFiretop
too many watchers...

[fishtank]

I'd really want Hoffman's Totem in there instead of a Witchling - if nothing else as a ranged machine puppet.

[benw]

I have played with the Pale Rider in Hoff's crew and have had a great time and success using him. Just a thought

[WarlockFiretop]

Yeah, ranged is an issue: a single harpoon probably won't cut it, right?

I see this list as a mobile melee force, sending the Watchers to the objectives and using the Master-Guardian-Peacekeeper ball as a magnet for the opposing crew. I'll use this to learn the game, using Hoffman for objectives and Sonnia for attrition.

Long-term, I want to develop more of a gunline, to counter any opponents who like melee. I'll definitely pick up an Austringer and a Warden when it's out. I want to get the Lucius box, to add Ryle (for Hoffman) and some Guardsmen (for Sonnia). Also, Lucius as a third Master, who I gather runs kind of a mobile gunline: perhaps the best of both worlds.

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------

I'd really want Hoffman's Totem in there instead of a Witchling - if nothing else as a ranged machine puppet.

I haven't heard anything good about the Mechanical Attendant. If anything, I've been told to get the Mobile Toolkit instead. Enlighten me!

---------- Post added at 10:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

I have played with the Pale Rider in Hoff's crew and have had a great time and success using him. Just a thought

I would like to run the Pale Rider, it sounds great: out on its own section of board, ducking in and out of cover, popping that rifle: awesome!

I just can't get over the horrific sculpt. And it's a weird zombie horse with horns. Doesn't fit my theme, aesthetically. Maybe I could greenstuff some flames on it.

[benw]

I'm no expert with the Pale Rider but I found that the dodging in and out of cover shooting is cool but what I also enjoyed was the ability to shoot someone who is trying to hit you in melee and then push out of melee up to 10" with his (2) action (can't remember name of it). Very helpful particularly if you have on the damage and Critical from his stage. Then you can also change your stage to get armour afterwards with your (0).

Cool rules but I also appreciate the sculpt is an acquired taste. I don't mind it myself.

[Wulfen]

Very helpful particularly if you have on the damage and Critical from his stage. Then you can also change your stage to get armour afterwards with your (0).

That (0) can only be cast if it's the first thing he does when he activates, so you can't kill something and then try to cast that.

IMO, the Pale rider is fantastic with Hoffman, he's able to take an area of the board on his own, while the Hoffman crew bowl down whatever's in their way.

[Ozz]

How much time does it tend to take to learn to play Hoffman and his friends? As i should be getting him back shortly and am looking forward to trying him out.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I really cannot recommend the Mobile Toolkit over the Mechanical Attendant enough. It heals, it keeps pace with C. Hoffman (ensuring he always benefits from empowered and is getting a +1 to Open Circuit), and can blow friendly constructs up! It is also lacks the Insignificant trait.

As for adding models, I've had tremendous success with Santiago Ortega. He's not a Construct, but that's actually a bonus, as he can operate independently from Hoffman. Pair him up with a Guardian and it's baby town frolics.

Sue's someone else I've been meaning to try. Like Santiago, you can get up to some silly antics by pairing him with a Guardian and turning him into a card factory.