Black or White Undercoat

[Oscilioth]

Hey, I've been trying to up my painting skill since I made the move from Warhammer to Malifaux and I've been fairly happy with my results, however I've always used a black undercoat, and use overall a fairly dark palette of colours.

I've now decided with buying some new models (Belles) that I want to try some brighter colours and have done a white undercoat. The problem so far that I'm having is my colours seem to be lacking a kind of depth that I got by painting over the black undercoat, I've only really done there skin, but it just kind of looks like a fairly flat blue with some obvious highlights. I didn't really have this problem before and I'm not sure what the problem is.

Are my paints too thick? I've only recently learnt that they need to be watered down (Citadel Paints), so I'm putting a drop of water in with a little blob of paint, its comes out thick enough that it doesn't really run like a wash, but not thick enough that it will sit on the high part of crease without rolling down.

Thanks for taking the time to read, any help is much appreciated! :1_Happy_Puppet2:

[Bruglyother]

Sounds like your paint mix is just about spot on. Sometimes you will want it thicker or thinner depending on what you are trying to accomplish, but where you have it seems right for general use.

As for primer, because you are using white, there will be no natural shading in the depths like there is with black. That is one of the advantages of black. It creates a bit of shading in the recesses already, and it is more forgiving to missed spots, making them less visible. White on the other hand makes your paints brighter, but it is less forgiving to missed spots (they stick out like a sore thumb) and it doesn't have the natural shading, instead having natural highlighting. My recommended solution is to use washes for the recesses, giving you the shading you are missing.

Personally, I use grey primer for most things.It pretty much gives you the best of both worlds.

I'm sure some of the better painters will give you more advice at some point. But I thought I'd throw out my thoughts. Hope it helps.

[nilus]

yeah if you use white you are going to have to bust out more washes. Devlin mud is talent in a bottle. It really makes minis pop.

As another idea to try. Instead of Black or White, try priming in a shade of grey. It kinda works like the best of both worlds. You get more shading then white but you don't lose a lot of detail like you would with black(and its brighter)

[Clement]

Ditto on the grey primer. The other thing I started doing that works really well is wash the whole model with Badab Black (or some other black wash) after priming and before painting. It darkens out the recesses for you without also taking the rest of the model with it like black primer does.

[DeusInnomen]

Ditto on the grey primer. The other thing I started doing that works really well is wash the whole model with Badab Black (or some other black wash) after priming and before painting. It darkens out the recesses for you without also taking the rest of the model with it like black primer does.

I never thought to try this, thanks for the idea Clement.

[Vidiot]

I second the white primer with a quick wash. In my case though, I tend to use Devlan Mud to really give me a bit more visibility of the details when painting. I use Devlan Mud Wash instead of Badab Black because I feel it's a bit more subtle and allows for the shadowing while still allowing for some pretty bright colors. My Stiched Togethers were done with white primer and the wash and they came out fairly dark. My Vomit Worm was done the same way and he came out considerably more vibrant.

[aka_hazard]

I also prime in white then use a wash.

For cloth and regular flesh I use Devlan Mud, for machines/constructs I use Badab Black and for rotten flesh (zombies, etc) I use Thraka Green.

[harbinger]

No reason rehash some the advice given, it will already set you on right track.

The best advice given though is the grey primer camp. It seriously makes things easier on you.

[Oscilioth]

Unfortunately I don't have access to any kind of decent spray paint other than the Citadel Black and White, so I'm not really sure if I can get any grey.

I will try out the wash over primer on a spare bit and see how it goes for me, thanks for the tip.

Also, I'm doing all my zombie skin blue, and in trying to get the skin to look like it did on my other models I've actually gone much too dark already, using only Ice Blue paint and Asurman Blue washes, should I go back over it with lighter blues, or is just going to get too thick?

[Red_Starrise]

Unfortunately I don't have access to any kind of decent spray paint other than the Citadel Black and White, so I'm not really sure if I can get any grey.

Do you have a Wal-Mart, Fred Meyer or Home Depot nearby? If so just go pick up a matte grey indoor/outdoor spray paint of the cheaper brands, runs about $1 at wal-mart in the Color Place brand (blue can w/ 5 colored circles on the front) & they sell flat grey primer. It's just fine for using to prime minis, terrain, vehicles etc, plastic or metal.

[von Clausewitz]

Unfortunately I don't have access to any kind of decent spray paint other than the Citadel Black and White, so I'm not really sure if I can get any grey.

I will try out the wash over primer on a spare bit and see how it goes for me, thanks for the tip.

Also, I'm doing all my zombie skin blue, and in trying to get the skin to look like it did on my other models I've actually gone much too dark already, using only Ice Blue paint and Asurman Blue washes, should I go back over it with lighter blues, or is just going to get too thick?

In my opinion Krylon Indoor/Outdoor primer is superior in literally every way to Citadel primer and it is only like $4 a can at your local hardware store.

Recently I have been using a Krylon grey primer and while i like the quality of the paint i think I will be switching back to black. Black is really nice if you are layering/glazing because you get a defined dark line while only marginally losing the vibrancy of a white basecoat (due to the sheer number of layers of paint).

[Oscilioth]

Oh, I should have said that I'm in Australia, and Australia seems to have a very limited hobby market. I've tried various Home Improvement shop (Bunnings) spray paints, but they've only been a quick may to destroy my models, so Citadel is all I have

[porkchops]

If you can't get grey and only have black and white, try the black first. After it dries, lightly come in with the white from above. It gives a funky highlight effect with black, white, and grey

[Clement]

I use a sandable automotive spray primer I got from my local auto parts store, it only ran me a couple bucks. Just don't hose down your minis and everything runs fine.

(though come to think of it, hosing down a model in citadel primer is equally bad)

[Mister_Q]

...(Bunnings) spray paints, but they've only been a quick may to destroy my models

I use Bunnings primers for bigger models (40K tanks) - probably a bit thick for Malifaux though.

... black first. After it dries, lightly come in with the white from above. It gives a funky highlight effect with black, white, and grey

+1 - this is the best method. Does a lot of your shading for you.

[Dreygan]

why must you people make me cringe so with your threats of non model spray paints (im sure its the same but i still cant bring myself to do it)

Anyway, I used to LOOVE my black primer and had a hard time giving it up, but something you may want to try that has worked fantastic for me is gray scaling. Theres some good videos on how to do it on youtube, (there is one where the guy is doing witchling stalkers which is particularly helpful). I start with white primer, then use adeptus battle grey thinned out significantly with thinner medium. that brings it out pretty well on its own but once that dries i do a standard dry brush over everything with fortress grey and then a light drybrush with white.

yes it sounds like this is alot of steps just to "prime" but the thing thats nice about this is from there on the model can get its color from just a thinned out layer of whatever you want to use. My Silurids got the greyscale treatment, then got one layer of thinned green (dont remember the color but its an awesome mossy tone from p3) then i picked out their fins and tentacles with a bit of red drybrushing at the tips and then just teeth/claws/eyes. Got done with all three in like 45 mins and they look like i did a ton of detail work on.

[harbinger]

why must you people make me cringe so with your threats of non model spray paints (im sure its the same but i still cant bring myself to do it)

Because it really is superior? Stronger finish... half the price... twice the size.

I was skeptical myself but bought a can of Krylon grey primer to do a 4x8 table we had just covered in sand for the local BnM store. On a whim I grabbed a mini and tried it out thinking Id just strip it afterwards. Within minutes I was out in yard punting my citadel can all over the place.

[Dreygan]

hrm... well if i ever have an excuse to buy it for something else maybe ill give it a try.

[nilus]

why must you people make me cringe so with your threats of non model spray paints (im sure its the same but i still cant bring myself to do it)

Not only is it the same, its usually half the price.

For hobby paints other then black and white you got

You got Army Painter

http://www.thearmypainter.com/partners.php?country=au

And Armory Spray grey

http://www.thewarstore.com/armoryspraypreimergrey.html

Both work very well and you should be able to get them just about anywhere in the world.

[Cadilon]

Anyway, I used to LOOVE my black primer and had a hard time giving it up, but something you may want to try that has worked fantastic for me is gray scaling. Theres some good videos on how to do it on youtube, (there is one where the guy is doing witchling stalkers which is particularly helpful).

You don't happen to have the link for this do you? I've searched for it and can't seem to find it.

Thanks.

[Dreygan]

whichever brand has the munckin dudes on it is the one i use. As for the link to the video i unfortunately cant post one now as im at work and cant open youtube but can post tonight after the magic draft

[Cadilon]

I think this is the Youtube video you referenced

.

[RevYolution]

I for one do not use a spray paint primer. I do a black wash on a cleaned mini then do a dry brush of white over it. I find that it really works well to add the pop that I want for shadows and what not.

[nilus]

I for one do not use a spray paint primer. I do a black wash on a cleaned mini then do a dry brush of white over it. I find that it really works well to add the pop that I want for shadows and what not.

How do your minis hold up over time. Ive always found without a solid prime coat my model chip rather easily

[Dreygan]

sorry about being slow. Yes that video is the one that got me to try it. I do it a little different but that is a good basic way to go