Model Question

[incompotent]

So guys I started playing a month ago or so and I am thinking about expanding my crew but I was wondering if I could get some opinions on which would be a more solid choice for my crew.

I am currently running lady justice and I either swap out the judge for the guild guardian from my friends hoffmans box when I dont feel like running the judge. I am thinking about picking up some ranged support and there are a few great options in the guild to expand my crew with. I am just not sure if I want to pick up Nino Santiago or Ryle. If you guys could just help me out and give me a break down of which you think would be a more solid choice.

My current crew lay out is 25ss with a 6 stone cache

Lady J

Witchling Stalker X2

Death Marshal X2

Judge/ Guild Guardian

[dgraz]

I vote Nino hands down

[Jewomie]

+1 for Nino.

I'm not crazy about his sculpt... but damn he can kill stuff.

Santiago is a risk simply because he's better at half wounds, and Ryle is a risk because he's never friendly.

Nino on the other hand has an auto kill trigger that (at worse) can help empty an opponent's hand, and his range and damage are pretty sweet... plus a targeting bonus?? yeah... he's worth his cost

[dgraz]

and Santiago is really bad in melee with no means of escaping....Nino is even worse in melee but at least has an ability to Push out of melee.

Don't get me wrong (I play Perdita mostly) I luuuuv Santiago - but if it's a choice between him and Nino, it's Nino every time.

[Jewomie]

true. Melee does put a hamper on Nino... but i have been known to keep a guardian close by, just in case someone get's too close to him. =]

[Requirement]

Ryle is never friendly, but he can push out the damage. I personally vote for Ryle even though it realistically may not be the best option. I feel Ryle is a little more versatile than Nino.

Neither are a bad option.

[incompotent]

The reason I was considering Ryle was that my crew doesn't have very many opportunities to interact with each other unless you count the death marshals finish the job or lady J granting melee expert but i planned on having her deployed with a forward strike force of Stalkers and the Judge and keeping which ever piece I pick up in the back of combat with the Death marshals. I understand that Nino is a fantastic piece though I just wish he looked different my crew is so full of western themed dudes I was hoping to shake things up a bit.

[nilus]

I am going to vote Santiago

People pointed out his flaws but I think overall he is more well rounded then Nino. He can dish out the pain but he can also grab objectives easier. I feel like Nino gets a bit overrated by a lot of people.

[Requirement]

Ryle is never friendly, but he can push out the damage. I personally vote for Ryle even though it realistically may not be the best option. I feel Ryle is a little more versatile than Nino. He can grab objectives, not die the second he is in melee, and still shoot things.

Neither are a bad option though. Like everyone else on here says, just choose the model you like best. Or like I usually say, "Screw it and buy them all, I don't need to eat or pay my phone bill."

[incompotent]

Also just a general question if copelious paralyze one of my guys can I use the dispel from a witchling stalker to get rid of it or is paralyze a status effect and not a spell affect?

[dgraz]

bye-bye paralyze!

[WindlordRyu]

The main problem I find with Nino is that his abilities requires masks, and I usually want to save my high masks for Ripostes with Lady J. But on the other hand, with Inspiring Swordplay and In My Sights you'll be able to hit pretty much anything that dares to come close to your crew. He doesn't do well vs armored targets though. And his ability to deal a lot of damage to a single target kinda overlaps with what your crew can already do.

Can't really comment on Santiago/Ryle, never used them. Personally I would probably use an Austringer due to their ability to target support pieces hiding behind terrain/other models.

[gretster]

For armoured targets check out Nino's headshot trigger! No mask required either!

[nilus]

The reason I rate Santiago over Nino is because Santiago looses range but gains rapid fire which Combined with paired means he has a much better chance of triggering Trigger happy then Nino.

Nino - 18", standing still gets 2 shots CB 9, maybe 3 or more with Trigger happy. Can also head shot if you get a crow. Hunter too

Santiago - 10", standing still gets 3 shots(if hurt gets to walk 4" and still shoot three times) cb 5(7 if hurt). More shots with trigger happy(with Paired means it happens more often). built in Ram critical strike as well(So you have a good chance either shot of either taking another shot or doing +2 damage. Also +fate damage flips if hurt.

So here is my take. For tricky models taking a lot of cover that have lots of defenses, Nino is better choice but for shear damage output against just really tough models, Santiago wins out.

[nix]

and Santiago is really bad in melee with no means of escaping....Nino is even worse in melee but at least has an ability to Push out of melee.

He has an ability to ignore disengaging strikes, but still has to walk out of Melee. The Austringers have the push, not Nino.

I vote Santiago over Nino most of the time. If I need a headshot trigger, I like Nino better.

[dgraz]

He has an ability to ignore disengaging strikes, but still has to walk out of Melee. The Austringers have the push, not Nino.

My bad, the point still stands. Once Santiago is in melee, with his Df of; what 4? he's not getting out. Nino can escape.

That said I think Nilus' points are swaying me.....I also recently listened to the podcast where he discusses the Ortega's and explains his thoughts in more depth.

I think since most lists I run include both Nino and Santiago I never really thought about it too much and my opponents are vocal in their hatred of Nino not realizing that Santiago is at least as scary. Thinking about it more, Nino is fantastic and brutal but Santiago is a bit more consistent.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Santiago nearly everytime. Just add further points to discussion. He has same def as Nino, but has hard to kill, and a self heal ability. This guy is tough usually takes at least three attacks to kill him, which most models cant pull in one activation, giving him thw ability to activate heal up and wait for some else to bail him out.

[Bentley Cat]

ive only ever used ryle so can only speak for him, he is brutal and can dish out a lot of damage, is more mobile with his push and can be a pain with a cheeky defense trigger denial on all attacks, i use a student of conflict in my crew as well and if ive no better target ryle receives fast as well for another ap

[soapy.sawfish]

If your using Lady J then the Executioner is great move him in front of Lady J to obstruct anyone shooting her and use him to take out small models so he can get his wounds back and at 7 soul stones I've always found him useful

[dgraz]

If your using Lady J then the Executioner is great move him in front of Lady J to obstruct anyone shooting her

Unfortunately, that doesn't work since they are both Ht2 models, she can still be seen.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Simple, Austringer

[Fastenhate]

Unfortunately, that doesn't work since they are both Ht2 models, she can still be seen.

The executioner would block LOS to Ht 1 and Ht 2 models that are not elevated to Ht 3. A Ht 2 model cannot see over a Ht 2 model to see another Ht 2.

[von Clausewitz]

I'm in the Santiago > Nino camp. That being said, I think Santiago has a much steeper learning curve than Nino. I think it would be beneficial for you to try both models and see what works with your play style. In my opinion knowing when to hire Santiago over Nino and vice versa can improve your game tremendously.

[nilus]

Simple, Austringer

I don't get the greatness of Austringers.

I understand they can hit from far away without LOS but its a (2) action for the really long range and there damage profile(even with Critical strike) is not that great.

The problem is for most Strategies I can't afford to dedicate 5 or 10 stones to a model or models that are basically going to stand still in a little corner and put out a point or two of damage. Guild already suffers from a low model count to stone ratio(with no real way to summon more), I generally can't afford to leave so many points sitting in one place. Its honestly a similar problem I have with Nino.

[Lucidicide]

I don't get the greatness of Austringers.

I understand they can hit from far away without LOS but its a (2) action for the really long range and there damage profile(even with Critical strike) is not that great.

The problem is for most Strategies I can't afford to dedicate 5 or 10 stones to a model or models that are basically going to stand still in a little corner and put out a point or two of damage. Guild already suffers from a low model count to stone ratio(with no real way to summon more), I generally can't afford to leave so many points sitting in one place. Its honestly a similar problem I have with Nino.

I haven't been a Guild player in some time, but watching people use Austringers I often feel like people suffer from "Austringer has great range and doesn't need LoS!" While that is true, that doesn't mean the Austringer should stay on the back line safely. If you spend a bit of time positioning, it will get 2 attacks at turn + Deliver Orders. Usually people have something they don't want to die that is pretty easy to kill if only you can see it (Seishin, Waifs, Insidious, etc).

I'm not saying they're the end all be all, but they are quite potent for 5... if used well. I don't often see them used effectively.