Terrain Conflicting With Scenario?

[Red_Starrise]

Had this come up today, we decided on a 25ss game, he chose Guild, I chose Outcasts, then we determined this game would be around a mine with diagonal deployment & built the terrain accordingly. THEN got Shared Supply Wagon strategy & then chose our deployment corners yada yada all the steps. Anywho, once we deployed we discovered a problem, by the way we'd set the terrain up together he had no avenues of moving his supply wagon into the center of the table because there were no gaps between terrain that were big enough for a 50mm base to fit through.

To resolve the situation in the immediate, we agreed to just spread the largest couple gaps for him so it would fit, IMO if the terrain makes the strategies impossible then the terrain must be moved to accomodate, but what is the usual convention used by others for this.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I'd say that's right. If the scenario requires something, just rearrange the terrain as necessary to fit it.

Preferably this would be done before players choose deployment zones to make it more impartial, but, as long as no one feels like the new layout is designed to be exploited, I think that what you did was probably the best solution.

Like most games, there aren't really official rules for dealing with impossible scenarios, because they shouldn't exist.

Personally, how I resolve it is, try to fix it within reason, with the circumstances penalizing whoever benefitted from the error, if it can't be easily fixed and/or there was someone clearly in the wrong/benefitting from it.

For instance, if you forgot two armor so a model would have two health more than they do, that's easy to fix.

If that two health caused the model's death, then maybe put them back and say that they can't activate next, because a model reappearing can alter how the other side would have acted.

[Kadeton]

I think that's a decent way to handle that situation. For future games, leaving 50mm+ gaps between terrain pieces is also a good idea.

[Shank Seamus!]

Iv had much the same situation and solved it the same way.. i dont personally agree with the idea of replacing a model tho, in my group we put it down to learning your crew a little more, found that if we (I) forgot armour or htw etc.. by not having a 'do-over' gave us (me) more incentive to remember it in the future..

[Q'iq'el]

In the original Malifaux there was a rule that a model cannot pass through an area where its base wouldn't fit (IIRC). I believe that rule was removed around the time Terraclips were announced (most doors smaller than 30mm) and windows as prints on the paper).

Nowadays if somewhare is a passable terrain you can pass it even if the base doesn't fit. You just have to place the model so that it can cross the area fully (in other words it may not make a full move at some point as it stops a bit short).

And if you have a very long and narrow passage, then perhaps you should consider another route first?

Obviously rearranging the terrain is the last line of defense but I see nothing wrong in it myself.

[Ratty]

I personally think it's just a matter of good manners.. I have had games where I had access to a crew with lots of flying and floating spirits and the opponent had access to Marcus (with no Raptors or Shikome) and Rasputina, so lots of foot sloggers.. We got Claim Jump, the center of the table was a 6" tower.

So what do I do... Move the tower 2" to the side. When your playing friendlies then it's up to you to make it a good game, and if tweaking things a little will help then by all means I think you should do it.

If it's a tournament then it's the tournament organizers call (Though I have had a few game where me an my opponent happily made a little tweak because things have been a bit one sided in the terrain front).

[pugwhan]

Regarding terrain setup and special location -

RM (pg64)

These items do not displace terrain already set up on the table unless placing them on the terrain would mean all models could not read the items. If so, move the terrain to a location on the table agreeable to all players.

I would assume the same in regards to the supply wagon needing to be able to make it to the center of the table.

---------- Post added at 11:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------

In the original Malifaux there was a rule that a model cannot pass through an area where its base wouldn't fit (IIRC). I believe that rule was removed around the time Terraclips were announced (most doors smaller than 30mm) and windows as prints on the paper).

Unless there was a Rules Marshall ruling that I missed, this rule is still in effect.

RM (pg-35) -

If a models base does not fit through a gap between model bases and/or terrain, the model must find an alternate path or stop its movement at the point where it can no longer pass.

[nilus]

I think a lot of people house rules that ht 2 models can move through doors because if you had to make terrain that let 30mm bases fit in you would have doors that are way to wide for the scale.

As for the OP. Honestly if we setup terrain and then flipped a Strategy that didn't work. We'd just flip again. Doesn't seem like that big a deal.

In a tournament enviroment the TO should endavor to setup terrain in a way that any strategy allowed can be played easily, but for local just for fun games...just flip again

[Sybaris]

How about finding a way to let the "larger" models use the (#) Interact action by spending AP to squeeze through, representing the time/effort for the model to pass.

Firstly, one could assign some statistics to Doors and Gaps, like Ht and base size that can pass through, so that models who are smaller or equal to both (ex. Ht2, 30mm) can pass freely, while models who exceed one or both stats could use the interact action.

a) If the base is too large, but the model could logically squeeze through (ex. Pere Ravage and normal door), then it's a (1) action.

If both the model's Ht and the base size are too large (ex. Mature and normal door, then it becomes a (2) action.

The model would then be placed on the other side of the gap/door/narrow pass.

---

That doesn't work with wagons (objects) of course, but there is definitely an issue with some models that should be able to go through doors.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Sybaris

[Carse]

My group has just treated it as difficult terrain if the model doesn't fit. Unless that model has pass through, because if the model can maneuver through other models it should be able to maneuver through tight spaces.

[SpiralngCadavr]

My group has just treated it as difficult terrain if the model doesn't fit. Unless that model has pass through, because if the model can maneuver through other models it should be able to maneuver through tight spaces.

That's a good house rule. I like it.

[benw]

I say strap a pair of wings on the Supply Wagon, give it flight and call it even