Returning Tome: aRamos 2012

[mythicFOX]

So like a number of players at the UK masters this year I agreed to step away from the filth for the 2012 tournament season. As a result I'm coming home to the Arcanists.

What I thought I'd do is get a thread going in here to talk about my games with the Arcanists and what I'm learning as I go along. While I will be using other Arcanists during the year aRamos will be my primary focus.

On Sunday I played my first tournament with the old man (30ss Scraps) so this seems like a good time to start sharing my games and thoughts. I'll keep updating the thread as I play more games and have more thoughts.

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------

Round 1 - A Line in the Sand vs Lilith

I was defending aLitS, which is bad for Ramos, vs Lilith it's really bad. My list was;

Arcanists Crew - 30 - Scrap

Ramos

--

4 Pool

+ Ramos, Avatar of Invention

[2ss]

Mobile Toolkit [3ss]

• Large Steampunk Arachnid
  [5ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  

Against;

Neverborn Crew - 30 - Scrap

Lilith, Mother of Monsters

--

8 Pool

Primordial Magic [2ss]

• Terror Tot Nephilim
  [3ss]
  
  
• Lelu
  [7ss]
  
  
• Lelu
  [7ss]
  
  
• Lilitu
  [7ss]
  
  

I took Hold Out (mistake 1) and Ramos' own scheme, my opponent Stake a Claim and Hold Out.

My plan (mistake 2) was to use the mass of spiders in to contest the five Dynamite markers while aRamos manifested and brought backup. This worked to a point, however I ran out of models to defend with as I was spread too thinly.

In the final turn it was looking like a 2-4 loss, with aRamos sat in Lilith’s DZ and a Tot taking SaC in my DZ and denying me Hold Out. Unfortunately Lilith went into Ramos who BJ'd his Df flip. Lilith cheated in the RJ and that as they say is history. 2-6 Loss for me. aRamos has now been Red Jokered for damage in three of the six games I've played with him.

Had I taken a better first scheme and played to defend three of the markers with bigger hitters I could have held this to a draw, or even a win. Still plenty learned.

I'll post my next game in round two later.

Edited February 28, 2012 by mythicFOX

[Calmdown]

Returning Tome, I like it

[Koali]

looking forward to more reports...

Hopefullywith mor details...

[Ebonstar]

Having a blast with Ramos and aRamos myself. The spiders would give you activation control it seems but like you said, you lack the up-front presence needed to defend the strategy. Easy strat for Lillith, tough strat for Ramos. Sounds like a challenge!

[Calmdown]

The massive disparity in attacking and defending in Line in the Sand (2ap vs 1ap for disarming vs arming) makes it hard for pretty much anyone playing defender, before you even get to comparing list effectiveness and number of units available etc. It's a terrible strategy!

[mythicFOX]

Thanks for the warm words guys.

Round 2 - Escape and Survive vs The Viks

I'm not going to do much of a rundown on this one as my opponent was very new, as in the first draft of his Vicks Crew was; Vicks, Taelor, Johan, Convict Gunslinger and Teddy. He was a nice guy but the game wasn't a major tactical battle and I spent a bit of time helping him out with his models abilities etc.

I'm on record many times as having said I don't like Escape and Survive. Partly because it's a low conflict strategy, and partly because no one understands how it works. If you think you understand how Shared Escape and Survive works, you don't know how Shared Escape and Survive works.

As it stands there are several outstanding questions around it's rules. This prompted me and Ian (CalmDown) to spend five minutes with the TO trying to work out how the strategy actually plays.

The only real remark from the game was how enjoyable it was to be playing 'proper' Malifaux again, positioning models to block enemy charges and using terrain for more than just blocking LOS etc.

In the end I won 7-6, had I really gone for the throat I could probably have done more.

Round 3 - Shared Contain Power vs Lady J

Contain Power at this stage was never going to produce a real result here. You shouldn’t normally lose your master unless you’ve made a mistake. As my opponent and I had both saved Bodyguard for this round we were looking at a standoff.

Crews were;

Arcanists Crew - 30 - Scrap

Ramos

--

6 Pool

+ Ramos, Avatar of Invention

[2ss]

Mobile Toolkit [3ss]

• Desperate Mercenary
  [2ss]
  
  
• Desperate Mercenary
  [2ss]
  
  
• Large Steampunk Arachnid
  [5ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  
• Soulstone Miner
  [6ss]
  
  
• Steampunk Arachnid
  [3ss]
  
  

Guild Crew - 30 - Scrap

Lady Justice

--

5 Pool

• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Exorcist
  [6ss]
  
  
• Sue
  [8ss]
  
  
• Death Marshal
  [4ss]
  
  
• Nino Ortega
  [7ss]
  
  

Given neither of us were going to play aggressive we both kept our second scheme secret as this scheme was more then likley going to decide the game. I chose Grudge one of his Death Marshalls.

The board consisted of six or so Ht6 buildings forming two sides of a street along the middle of the board, with some low walls and fences scattered around. Unsurprisingly Nino took a sniping position on one of the buildings and I deployed in cover. The rest of the Guild crew formed a block to the left of my opponents DZ.

The first three turns were sedate, Ramos manifested and kicked out some spiders. Lady J and the crew advanced into the middle of the street. My Mercs took out the Exorcist and put the hurt on Sue.

Turn four saw my SS miner surface next to the Grudged DM. My opponent took initiative and Lady J dispatched the Miner in a single blow. I sent a swarm and a LSPA into the DM to claim my Grudge. At this point I needed to figure out what my opponent's other scheme was and I was struggling.

Next turn came around and my LSPA and Swarm were exposed to Nino. I needed initiative, and failed to get it. Nino opened up on the Swarm and following three trigger-happy triggers the swarm was scrapped. The LSPA got into melee but made little impact.

Turn five was another stall so I walked a new LSPA into Lady J to put some pressure on and moved aRamos over the street to drop into his DZ in case he had Holdout.

In the final turn Lady J took the initiative, one hit the LSPA and double walked into my DZ. So it’s not hold Out it’s Breakthrough, Ramos is not the wrong side of the road. A leap and an Arachnid later he crossed back and dropped another LPA into walking distance of my DZ. Phew.

As things stood, I was winning 3-2 with Grudge and us both holding Bodyguard. My opponents final chance was to jump Nino off the side of the Ht6 building he was sniping from to give him a shot at Ramos.

Nino leapt heroically into the air, and landed spectacularly on his neck, dead from the falling damage.

Game over and a cagy 3-2 to aRamos.

This game gave me an appreciation of the speed the old man is now capable of. As someone else put it, he now moves at book 2 speeds. It alwso showed me that DM's are still worth their stones in Ramos. With the event over and me 8th of 18 I was fairly happy with the day. I knew going in the strategies weren’t ideal for Ramos and I felt the cards ran slightly against me. I know I’m doing ok when I can do alright against worse than average cards.

That’s all for now folks.

[ukrocky]

The viks can take teddy? o.O

---------- Post added at 07:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

Oh and well done mate

[sharpobjects]

Gratz on your 2W-1L tourney. You can build on that fine showing for future tourney's. I too am deploying The Year of the Ramos for 2012. I have been working in the Mech Rider and Johan and have seen some positive results.

Surprisingly you didnt run into any stitched during your tourney. The immune to influence from both the Rider and ARamos really helps. The stitched have a way of turning our spiders into scrap faster than we can

[mythicFOX]

On Johan.

I've played a few games with him now and I'm not finding him all that useful. I think the issue is he's fairly poor unless he's within 3" of Ramos, which is only any good until turn 3 when he's gone as fast as his spider legs can carry him.

Has anyone had any luck with him and how are you using him?

[Ebonstar]

Honestly, not much with Ramos.

The best use I've had for Johan has been with Collette. He's cheaper and Collette can tote him around and drop him into things to chew on. Without mobility and with Ramos he's just a 6 stone early game bodyguard that if you're lucky may soak up a few hits and maybe get 1 swing in.

[sharpobjects]

It all depends on the what strategy you flip. I would agree he is not an auto include. There are strategies, such as claim jump, where ARamos is not needed to move all over the board.

It also depends on the crew you are going up against. His melee attacks are magical, he has flurry and a very nice 3/4/6 damage that has an oppurtunity to increase with a brutal trigger. He also gives Ramos's crew some range attacks besides Electrical Fire.

Having hard to kill, slow to die with 8 wounds and def 5 gives him survivability. If you plan on making constructs every turn with ARamos, Johan will be able to keep up with him and stay within 3 inches.

With the strategy of claim jump and adding in schemes of bodyguard and do I have to do everything myself, I think Johan will serve you very well for 6 stones. There are a couple of other strategies where ARamos doesnt have to move further than the center of the board that are good as well.

If i have to make it to my opponents deployment zone then I agree I would not take him. He doesnt drop a scrap counter when he dies and he doesnt benefit from ARamos movement bonus so I agree he can be a liability in certain games if he is not used right.

[mythicFOX]

I'm going to start testing a few new models out in the crew I'm not using by default and doing a sort of before and after on them in this thread. My to test list currently looks like;

• Rusty Alyce
  
• Kaeris
  
• Gunsmith
  
• Fire/Ice Gamin
  
• Mech Rider
  
• Guardian
  
• Watcher (summoned)
  
• Joss
  
• Steamborg
  

I think I'll be giving Alyce a test tonight, seen as I have a painted (ish) Alyce so I'll post my before thoughts;

My aRamos core is already 12ss (Avatar + MTK + LSPA +2 Cache), giving me 23ss to play with at 35ss so at 10ss Alice is a big ask. The extra cards filtering and burn out tricks before look interesting however from turn three when the old man is leaping around they're mostly spent. After this she seems to be relegated to a ranged support role, effectively acting as a 10ss Gunsmith/Convict Gunslinger. The question then will be is she wroth the extra four stones?

I'll let y'all know my thoughts tomorrow. Meanwhile does anyone have any thoughts around Alyce? Any tips or tricks I should know?

Edited March 8, 2012 by mythicFOX

[CRC]

Alyce is probably the most fragile 10ss model in the game. You need to keep her in cover or she will die. Don't count on her tricks, you won't win initiative every time, and you can't always afford to activate her first anyway.

Bring along some abominations. I often find there's too much scrap on the table for Ramos to gather/use. Spending her activation summoning two new models is often very good.

Because of rapid fire, she usually will only be able to engage a single target per round. Make it an important one.

Rust is a very good spell. If you've got opponents with armour, you should often use it in preference to her gun. It's got a higher Ca (Ramos' 8 versus her 6), and does at least the same damage (once you account for armour). Slow is "just" an added bonus.

Edited March 8, 2012 by CRC

[SportsComedian]

I'm going to start testing a few new models out in the crew I'm not using by default and doing a sort of before and after on them in this thread. My to test list currently looks like;

• Rusty Alyce
  
• Kaeris
  
• Gunsmith
  
• Fire/Ice Gamin
  
• Mech Rider
  
• Guardian
  
• Watcher (summoned)
  
• Joss
  
• Steamborg
  

I think I'll be giving Alyce a test tonight, seen as I have a painted (ish) Alyce so I'll post my before thoughts;

My aRamos core is already 12ss (Avatar + MTK + LSPA +2 Cache), giving me 23ss to play with at 35ss so at 10ss Alice is a big ask. The extra cards filtering and burn out tricks before look interesting however from turn three when the old man is leaping around they're mostly spent. After this she seems to be relegated to a ranged support role, effectively acting as a 10ss Gunsmith/Convict Gunslinger. The question then will be is she wroth the extra four stones?

I'll let y'all know my thoughts tomorrow. Meanwhile does anyone have any thoughts around Alyce? Any tips or tricks I should know?

Ramos can't use the Watcher. It's one of the few Hoffman constructs that doesn't have shared technology, or whatever its called.

And I see you always including the LSPA. I find him very lacking, since he doesn't do anything special really. The only time I bring him is against a heavily armored opponent, since he does do good things against armor. But that's a rare trait to come across, unless you're playing other constructs.

[CRC]

The watcher will be summoned using aRamos' ability.

The LSA is to be exploded by the MtK for 3 scrap at the low-low price of only 5ss.

The latter is a great way to prime aRamos' scrap needs (or even just free Ramos from the need to ever (2) Scavenge in a game. 5ss gets me 4-6 more master actions? Sold!)

[mythicFOX]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

As CRC says I'm looking to summon the Watcher, I'd love be able to hire them but it's not to be. I agree the LSPA's poor on its own terms, however when you can scrap factory them and summon two a turn they're a lot better. The game can become a whack'a'mole spider carnage fairly easily.

I'll let you know how I get on with Alyce

[Buck Dog]

Regarding Johann. I quite like him - I play Outcasts and I find that he and Taelor make a very solid core to any of my crews. Would he work well with Miners ? I would imagine that Johan coupled with a pair of Miners would be good for holding your deployment zone or securing an objective ?

[mythicFOX]

So I got two games in with Alyce last night, one against Von Shill in Shared Recon, and the other against Tina in Shared Destroy Evidence. I won't do a full rundown of the games as I really only want to talk Alyce.

I have to say I wasn't expecting much from Alyce but she was better than I expected. Rusty's abilities work fairly well against armoured crews and so that will count in her favour.

Her standout moment was in Shared destroy evidence when I saw an opportunity to take the evidence in my opponents DZ early. I had activation control so at the end of turn one she burnt out my Mech Rider, which gave it a 36" movement range, it ran the length of the board to hide behind a building in Tina's DZ. The rider dropped to one wound then grabbed the 2vp evidence first thing next turn before being killed by a random snowball.

Other than this she smoothed out my opening three turns but was then of relatively little value for the following three turns. She'll definitely stay in my case and may make a regular contribution to my crew. That being said she's not the auto include I've seen some players claim she is.

aRamos got a win in both games; 5-3 and 6-1. Putting me on an overall: 4wins 1loss and +5VPD with an average winning VPD of +2.75.

Not a bad start for the old guy.

[Calmdown]

I want to love Alyce so much because two cards is ridiculously game changing. She's not even that bad stat/utility wise. It's just a shame she costs so many points extra, and really misses Ranged Expert (BOOK ONE LACK OF AP MOD SYNDROME, I CHOOSE YOU!).

[Fetid Strumpet]

BOOK ONE LACK OF AP MOD SYNDROME, I CHOOSE YOU!

Truth.

[mythicFOX]

+1

It's also the 3" Ramos circle of immobility problem. So much stuff is only playable when it's sat next to Ramos who's either too slow or too fast for it.

I'm looking at you Johan!

That and if you're not careful you can wind up with a list that looks a lot like the village people.

[TheStranger]

+1

It's also the 3" Ramos circle of immobility problem. So much stuff is only playable when it's sat next to Ramos who's either too slow or too fast for it.

I'm looking at you Johan!

That and if you're not careful you can wind up with a list that looks a lot like the village people.

YES! I've found Ramos is able to be played a lot differently when he's got his crew close and the objective doesn't need you to be mobile. If they'd just strap some steampunk arachnids to his feet we'd be well away.

Does anyone else get the sense that book 2 units seem designed to help make Ramos more playable. The Toolkit, Borrowed Tech with Hoffman, Arcaneist ties, Ramos can lead his special forces, mech rider and SS miner for speed boost, Gunsmiths for range. I only play M&SU so it's probably true of all the crews but having access to book 2 changed the game entirely for me.

Enjoying your notes, hints and tips MythicFOX, thanks

[mythicFOX]

No problem mate, thanks for reading.

I think a lot of masters got help in Book2 but Ramos and Tina do look like they got the most direct interventions. For me the inclusion of MTK more or less proved Wyrd thought he should have one less :tomes required to cast his summoning spells.

Arcanists really suffered last year from not having most of the non-showgirl Book2 models land until the end of the season. If the rumours re Union Miners making it into the May release are true then the union should be in place to have a good showing at the key UK events over the summer.

I’m giving the old man a run out at the Doubles GT this weekend which should be fun, although I’m really looking forward to getting him in action at the first competitive event I’m taking him too in Liverpool at the end of the month.

So ahead of doubles has anyone got any thoughts on aRamos in a brawl with Colette? Any thing I should know?

Other than the MTK Colette synergy

[Cunning]

So that's at least 3 teams with Ramos at the doubles then?

With Collette? What happened to no book 2 masters?

[mythicFOX]

I'm playing Ramos, my partner happens to play Colette.

Besides who said anything about no book two masters? I committed to playing Arcanists this season, and I am.