Can Duet activate same turn it is formed?

[mistercactus]

This came up in a game a little while ago. Only just thought about asking on here.

If I have 2 coryphee and dance together using the first one, can the duet activate in the same turn?

My opponent said no, that the replace rules meant that the duet counted as being activated due to effects carrying over to replacing model.

My understanding is totally the opposite, that the duet should have ap remaining from the second, unactivated coryphee.

We played it his way, since he was so certain and I didn't want to get into an argument about it, but having reread the rules I still think I'm right.

Can someone help me out here please? Even if it's to tell me I'm wrong!

[Normski]

I dont really know a great deal but this seems like the companion of the Ten Thunders Brothers rule where you activate one model and resolve its AP and then the 2nd Coryphee used its AP, so unless im completely wrong it looks like the same kind of rule??

Thats a complete guess! but im sure the more experienced players on here will put me right!

[WookieeGunner]

Page 38 of the Rules Manual:

"The Replacing model(s) continues the activation using any general AP the replaced model(s) had remaining."

Based on this I would say you are correct, the Duet (Replacing model) may use the 2nd Cryophee's (replaced model) 2 General APs.

[Hateful Darkblack]

The Coryphee Duet continues the activation of the acting Coryphee, but doesn't gain any AP from the other Coryphee (AP is gained when you activate, so it doesn't have any.)

[mistercactus]

So if dance together was the first action performed by that coryphee, the duet has 1 ap left, and gains (+1) fast?

[Twisted Metal]

The replacing model (Duet) gains what ever AP the acting model (Coryphee using dance together) hasn’t used. So if the first action the Coryphee uses in its activation is Dance together the Duet will start with 1 general AP, +1 Fast and all of its 0 actions. If the acting Coryphee had to walk first and then use Dance Together the Duet would start with only +1 Fast and its 0 actions. Also keep in mind that a model that replaces another model activates immediately after. Your opponent does get to go before you activate the Duet once you dance together.

[Ozz]

Yes, if the first Coryphee activates, and only uses Dance together (1AP) It will then have 1 remaining general AP, 1 Fast AP and 3 0 actions left.

Total 2 1 actions and 3 0 actions, and just in case you or your friend were unsure, the activation continues immediately as well.

[Shadai]

This is why many use the first Coryphee to "slingshot" the Duet around the table. Obviously with Sword Dance the Duet's threat range is effectively 27" (two walk actions, zero action Sword Dance, walk action, free strike to the face), but you can still get an effective range at the start with two and not lose any actions.

Simply walk the first Coryphee twice as his 2 actions, then when you activate the second, spend 1 to Dance Partner, 1 to form Voltron with Dance Together, then you get the fast action along with his 3 zero actions, provided you didn't take any 0 actions with the second Coryphee. This gives the threat range at the start as:

First coryphee: 2 AP 16" (walk twice at 8" each walk)

Second coryphee: 1 AP Dance partner, placing him ahead of the first one, so an extra inch or so for the base

Second coryphee: 1 AP Dance Together (We Form Voltron!) Place the Duet ahead of the second Coryphee for additional range

Duet: 3 zero actions and a fast action, which you can use to (0) Use Soulstone, (0) Sublime Performance (always worth a shot and hey, you may trigger Swirl of Motion for an additional 4"!) then (0) Sword Dance, (1) Walk 9" then free kick to the head. With all the placement that's about a 27" threat range as well (31" if you get off Swirl of Motion). On turn 1.

Hilarity will ensue if you appropriately walked Cassie forward with Confident at the beginning of the game, then walked on her Nimble action, then 1 to Dance Partner to the Duet, then 1 to do something that reduces the life of the target.

As fun as it is, care needs to be had, as you'll have those two well out of reach of Colette.

[WookieeGunner]

The Coryphee Duet continues the activation of the acting Coryphee, but doesn't gain any AP from the other Coryphee (AP is gained when you activate, so it doesn't have any.)

Ok, I'm confused. If you don't get the extra AP, then why does the rule specifically states model(s) which implies all models. Is that for simaultaneous activations (i.e. Companion?)

[Shadai]

Ok, I'm confused. If you don't get the extra AP, then why does the rule specifically states model(s) which implies all models. Is that for simaultaneous activations (i.e. Companion?)

Yes.

The coryphee act one at a time. So if you use the first Coryphee activation to Dance with the second, the second technically hasn't "acted" yet, meaning it grants you a whopping 0 AP.

Think about it. If you got the 2 AP from the other model that hadn't activated yet, you would have a Duet sitting with 4 AP, plus 3 zero actions. There is no way that can be right, or fair.

[stinkoman]

Ok, I'm confused. If you don't get the extra AP, then why does the rule specifically states model(s) which implies all models. Is that for simaultaneous activations (i.e. Companion?)

AP is only gained at the start of a models activation. Just to reinforce what Shadai said earlier.

[sharpobjects]

Here are some useful links regarding this subject.

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?26428-Confusion-over-Replace&highlight=swarm+together

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?23579-Steampunk-Arachnids-reforming-with-a-friend&highlight=swarm+together

[Calmdown]

Ok, I'm confused. If you don't get the extra AP, then why does the rule specifically states model(s) which implies all models. Is that for simaultaneous activations (i.e. Companion?)

I think your confusion here is arising from the fact that you think both models are being replaced. Only one is being replaced (have a re-read of the card).

The model being replaced is the one that is currently activating, hence you will have its remaining general AP to use as the Duet. The other Coryphee is simply being sacrificed.

[Cadfan]

Well, what about Dance Apart, then?

[Shadai]

Well, what about Dance Apart, then?

It works the same way. You spend 1 AP, dance apart, then you have however many AP left to split among the models.

When you split, you decide which model gets what wounds and effects, etc.

Then, once that is done, both are still "activated" so you can immediately move, attack, etc with what points and zero actions you have left.

For example, if you split first thing on the turn with your fast action, you still have 2 AP to split among the two models. So one model can have 2 AP, or both can have one each.

[Todd]

It works the same way. You spend 1 AP, dance apart, then you have however many AP left to split among the models.

When you split, you decide which model gets what wounds and effects, etc.

Then, once that is done, both are still "activated" so you can immediately move, attack, etc with what points and zero actions you have left.

For example, if you split first thing on the turn with your fast action, you still have 2 AP to split among the two models. So one model can have 2 AP, or both can have one each.

Actually, AP and Wds are divided between the models "as evenly as possible", and effects are applied to all replacing models (RM pg.38).

[Raising]

i think you can win one inch more by walking with the first coriphee only one time and use dance partner there, this way you save 1 AP from the 2nd coriphee who one it make dance towether can walk for 1 inch more ( it have walk 9 instead of 8)