Headcase2 Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 I'm not on my home computer so I don't have access to all my files, but in the damage step timing the option to transfer wounds comes before the prevention flip, iirc. Therefore you can either prevent or transfer, but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Ryle shooting 16-18 times. Total 3 @ cb 5, 11-13 @ CB 7, 2 @ CB 8. Really loosely written. Lucius 0 sacs a dog for reactivate giving Ryle 3 attacks with issue command @ cb 5. Reaactivates zero gives elites +2 CB, gives Ryle 3 more attacks with issue command @ cb 7. Student activates gives Ryle fast until end of closing. Ryle activates shoots 4 times or 5 times with automatic fire @ cb 7. Hoff gains fast, reactivates self machine puppet one time for cb 8. Hoff casts reactivate on Ryle, gains fast machine puppet one time for cb 8. Reactivate Ryle shoots 4 times or 5 times with automatic fire @ cb 7. Ryle shooting 16-18 times. Total 3 @ cb 5, 11-13 @ CB 7, 2 @ CB 8. This means list at min has: Hoff Lucius 10 Student 4 Ryle 8 Dog 3 One construct to give slow to twice... My choice would be Guardian. So that is 25 ss of crew for this one turn of 16 - 18 shots, also there will be interruptions in between the shots. Of course you can add Hamelin for 1 more, making maximum of 19 shots. You will get a lot of straight flips and possible good severe flips for multiple damage flips. Not saying this is broken, but a lot of people are scared of this in theory. Take this one with a grain of salt. Also if my rules are off feel to correct, haven't really bothered to try doing this or doubled check for rulings that would change the results. This came from a discussion with a local henchman tonight. Edited March 5, 2012 by Mr. Bigglesworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Some problems: >Hoffman can't use Override Edict on himself. >Machine puppet is Cb6, don't see how it would go up to 8. >Lucius needs an 8 for his spell. Hoffman needs a highish :masks for reactivate. The extra shots can't be focused, so vs. targets in cover would be fairly useless (and anyone caught in the open by Ryle won't survive 10 or more shots). And trust me, it's not nearly as OP as it sounds when you see it on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 You can get 13 shots in total from Ryle. 3 from Ryle @ CB5 Hoffman gains fast from a different construct and override edicts Ryle 1 Machine puppet shot @ CB6 3 shots from Ryle @CB5 Lucius buffs guardsmen/Elite Division then orders Ryle to shoot 3 times @ CB7 Eats Dog for Reactivate Lucius buffs again and tells Ryle to shoot 3 times @ CB7 Target = Having a bad day. Too static really to do much good in a normal game but fun now and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistercactus Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 This is taken from Calmdown's how to beat dreamer thread, but it is worth repeating here. If Chompy triggers "all done" after killing a slow to die model (like a death marshall), the replacing takes place before your slow to die action. This means that as long as there is no other nightmare close enough, you get a free chance to shoot the dreamer in the face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Some problems: >Hoffman can't use Override Edict on himself. I got that wrong that override said friendly. >Machine puppet is Cb6, don't see how it would go up to 8. Machine puppet says construct uses cb 6 instead of its own, so lucius buff would still increase said elite's cb. >Lucius needs an 8 for his spell. Hoffman needs a highish :masks for reactivate. The extra shots can't be focused, so vs. targets in cover would be fairly useless (and anyone caught in the open by Ryle won't survive 10 or more shots). And trust me, it's not nearly as OP as it sounds when you see it on the board. As I said take it with a grain of salt. As for results it only drops max attacks by one cb 8. Cb 7 even against cover is not bad, against average defense of 5. Odds are about even. Though you probably couldnt cheat most of you intial flips. Factors that make it somewhat usable is his zero push to reposition and the fact his attacks dont need to be against same target. Iron skies your order cheats you of some higher cb attacks. Also student bumps max attacks by 2 more then yours. Edited March 5, 2012 by Mr. Bigglesworth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Main question here, how is Ryle getting CB8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRC Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Iron skies your order cheats you of some higher cb attacks. Lucius' buff only lasts until the end of his activation, not the turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Oops my bad got that mixed up. Kept thinking that buff was until end of activation. I need to have the cards in front of me when posting info off them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Obey an enemy kill your proxy with him and you get to flip and cheat for the wp duel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Iron skies your order cheats you of some higher cb attacks. Also student bumps max attacks by 2 more then yours. Only 1 extra attack, since Fast would only apply to a single activation (and not both on the initial one and on the reactivate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the junkie Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 Obey an enemy kill your proxy with him and you get to flip and cheat for the wp duel... Wait this works? I can cheat down my opponents wp to prevent death after killing the proxy while they are under obey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Skies Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'd challenge this myself as the model gains fast till the close phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 I dunno whether this can be seen as a "dirty trick" per se, but Austringers have a very consistent damage output and a very large area that they can affect making them very nice for surgically dropping enemy models into one wound thus allowing Sonnia to change them into Witchling Stalkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewomie Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 So, I do not remember if I saw this trick on this thread or another one, but I figured i would confirm a fun little combo i tried out last night. Against the Viks last night I hired Lady J, Lucius, Judge, 2 Marshalls, 1 Guard. at the beginning of turn 1 i Pine Box'ed Justice and moved Lucius up his full walk x2. In turn 2 i moved Lucius again, positioning him where i wanted to (about 4 inches from an enemy taelor) I used his (0) Reinforcements to pull the death marshall out of my deployment zone and dropped him 1 inch away from Lucius. I had planned to wait until the following turn so i could get justice out of the box, but the Marshall took a hit from Sue and a Ronin and he died, dropping Lady J about an inch away from Taelor. I activated Justice Inspiring swordplay gave me a Cb11 and i killed taelor in a single activation. Not a bad combo, considering most of the time turn one is spent moving, i didn't feel like this wasted any of Lady J's activations. I still am not sure Lucius is worth the 10ss, but he might be once i get used to using him a little more. results may vary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Wait this works? I can cheat down my opponents wp to prevent death after killing the proxy while they are under obey? Yes, this works. ---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ---------- I'd challenge this myself as the model gains fast till the close phase. The reason the SoC's card says "until the closing phase" is because a normal (+1) Fast would carry over to the next turn if the model targetted has already activated. The (+1) Fast the SoC grants will still end after the target's activation as per the normal rules of Fast, or in the Closing Phase, whichever comes first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyzie Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Obey an enemy kill your proxy with him and you get to flip and cheat for the wp duel... Where in the rules does it say I get to control the WP duel after I Obey something? I will need to quote this if I attempt it. The argument from my opponent will be that my control of his miniature ends once the miniature has completed what I obey it to do e.g. charge the Proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 Jew you probably best off dropping j in a forest or behind obscuring cover where she can still charge. This isvsafer and utilizes her stregnth. She has the ability to charge without los. This is incredibly useful with lucius be able to drop her 14" out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headcase2 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Where in the rules does it say I get to control the WP duel after I Obey something? I will need to quote this if I attempt it. The argument from my opponent will be that my control of his miniature ends once the miniature has completed what I obey it to do e.g. charge the Proxy. The Willpower duel is considered part of the action, and while the model is under the effect of Obey you control the entire action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 That Gov's Proxy/Obey trick is nasty - I'm seriously going to have to try that! Having recently gotten into Lucius, I've been pondering a few possible tricks; Permanent Closing Arguement (Credit for this goes to Bill - The Gamers Lounge) Lawyer Lucius A 10+ :crows in hand Use Reinforcements to push the Lawyer to within 1" of a key enemy model. When the Lawyer activates, cast Closing Arguement. Since the effect lasts until the Lawyers next activation, if you Paralyse your Lawyer (such as with a Warden) then the effect will continue. If the Lawyer happens to get killed before he activates, the effect on the enemy model won't end, pretty much guaranteeing the target's imminent demise. Treasure Hounds Lucius Student of Conflict 2x Guild Hounds This is the fastest way I can think of for claiming a treasure counter and getting it to your deployment zone in turn 1. Activate Student of Conflict and give a Hound Fast. Simultaneously Activate Lucius and the Hounds. Issue Orders twice to the Fast hound to place it in BTB with the treasure, then Wk once and cast Reinforcements to bring up something useful. The Hound then activates, picks up the treasure (1AP), and Wks three times (12") back into it's deployment zone. This becomes a little harder if there's severe terrain in the way. It might take a third Issue orders to the Hound to bring it in BTB, or you might need to be satisfied with just Wking the Treasure Hound out of LoS of the enemy. if you need it in one activation you could also forego the Student and lose one of the Hound's Wks. Finally, a Warden would also work and has the bonus of being both tougher and able to ignore severe terrain. But with Wk5 you'd need 3x Issue Orders just to get him into BTB with the Treasure (or to move Lucius up and cast Reinforcements), and you'd need a Guild Captain to chain the simultaneous activations between Lucius and the Warden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Can't take student with lucius, and lucius loses the companion with the hounds when taking a master. Otherwise it is an effective strategy with right board placement. With master it is a bit easier and mactivish can help with beast obey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Where in the rules does it say I get to control the WP duel after I Obey something? I will need to quote this if I attempt it. You control the model for that action, and the action is not over until it is fully resolved, including after effects. Them's just the rules, if they don't believe you I can explain it in person in a couple of weeks ---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ---------- Can't take student with lucius, and lucius loses the companion with the hounds when taking a master. Otherwise it is an effective strategy with right board placement. With master it is a bit easier and mactivish can help with beast obey. You can take the Student with Lucius, since he is allowed to hire totems (unless he's changed since the book). No go on companion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Clausewitz Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Can't take student with lucius, and lucius loses the companion with the hounds when taking a master. Otherwise it is an effective strategy with right board placement. With master it is a bit easier and mactivish can help with beast obey. Look at Lucius' card again. He can hire Elite Division, Guardsmen, and Totems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustcrusher Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 That Gov's Proxy/Obey trick is nasty - I'm seriously going to have to try that! Having recently gotten into Lucius, I've been pondering a few possible tricks; Permanent Closing Arguement (Credit for this goes to Bill - The Gamers Lounge) Lawyer Lucius A 10+ :crows in hand Use Reinforcements to push the Lawyer to within 1" of a key enemy model. When the Lawyer activates, cast Closing Arguement. Since the effect lasts until the Lawyers next activation, if you Paralyse your Lawyer (such as with a Warden) then the effect will continue. If the Lawyer happens to get killed before he activates, the effect on the enemy model won't end, pretty much guaranteeing the target's imminent demise. Glad I followed up on this- I didn't realize Paralyze was "skip this model's activation, then remove the Paralyze effect." For some reason I had it in my head that it was effectively activated but unable to do more than flip resists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtank Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 So do Guild have any dirty tricks NOT involving Lucius? Can't stand the fluff, not sold on the model... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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