Snowman Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hi All Puppeteers. I have some more rule questions. If you move away from an adjecent enermy puppet to a free space, does the blocking rule still apply? Can Rotten Bell ignore 2 rips, by discarding the Ace:crows? Can Joss' Sparking Axes dodges and does it get the +'s from his Angry ability apply? Can the Nurse remove the Decay counter from a reanimated Rotten Bell, so it can be reanimated again from the Toy Box?Hope some of you can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 1. Not exactly sure what you mean by the first question, but in general, if you move into rg 1 (adjacent) of an enemy puppet you are blocked (cannot take a second move during the current animation until the blocking puppet is delt with, ie torn apart). If you begin adjacent (rg 1) to an enemy puppet, you are allowed to move. If that move puts you into a space that is within rg 1 (adjacent) of an enemy puppet (the same one or a different one), you are once again blocked. If not, you are no longer blocked. Not sure that answers your question though. If not, can you explain what you mean exactly? 2. The ability reads "When this Puppet suffers Rips from an Attack, you may discard a crow to ignore one Rip." Thus, I would say no, you can only negate one rip. Not sure what the ruling would be if you are willing to spend two crows (one for each rip), but I would assume the ability would specify if that was legal, and I feel it clearly says one. 3. Angry provides Joss with a Powerful +1 for each rip he has sustained. A Powerful +1 only affects a Puppet's Attack (ie, the Puppet's Attack action). Sparkling Axes is not the Attack Action, thus it does not benefit from the Powerful +1, which is sad for the person playing Joss. On the other hand, since it is not the Attack action, the enemy puppet does not get to dodge, and as long as the action's requirements are met (6 of tomes and discarding 1 or 2 cards) the enemy puppet is ripped the number of cards discarded (up to two). Defense does not come into play, which is good for the Joss player (making this an awesome way to get passed things like Bete's Under the Bed ability, since she does not get a chance to dodge.) 4. Yes, since Bath Time removes all Effects and Counters, and Lovely Belles says that the Belle gains a Decay counter, the Decay Counter is removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Aside from whats already been said by Hugor (all of which should be correct) I'd add that Neglected should only prevent 1 Rip even if the Ace of :crows was discarded. If you look at the wording it says "When this puppet would suffer Rips from an Attack, you may discard a :crows to ignore one rip before they are applied" The underlined portions are the important parts. If it was intended to reduce more than the one Rip from an attack it would have been worded similar to "...you may discard :crows cards to ignore one rip for each :crows card discarded before they are applied.". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hi All Puppeteers. I have some more rule questions. If you move away from an adjecent enermy puppet to a free space, does the blocking rule still apply? Can Rotten Bell ignore 2 rips, by discarding the Ace:crows? Can Joss' Sparking Axes dodges and does it get the +'s from his Angry ability apply? Can the Nurse remove the Decay counter from a reanimated Rotten Bell, so it can be reanimated again from the Toy Box?Hope some of you can help. 1) No, the blocking rule only applies when you move IN to an adjacent space, not out of one. 2) No. 3) No and no. Sparkling axes may not be dodged and does not benefit from powerful. 4) The nurse can remove the decay counter from the belle, meaning that if the belle is torn apart it is not removed from play, but instead goes to the scrap heap. Seamus may then animate it from the scrap heap due to his ability OR it may be used as an upgrade. 5) Omen and Hugor are probably right, but I replied before reading. Lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Reguarding the Seamus, Nurse, Bell/ Guild Autopsy combo, means that Bell's and Guild Autosy's are indestructible, if you don't get the Nurse off the board. And thanks again for all of the replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Reguarding the Seamus, Nurse, Bell/ Guild Autopsy combo, means that Bell's and Guild Autosy's are indestructible, if you don't get the Nurse off the board. And thanks again for all of the replies. This is true. Good reason to kill the nurse. Works with the chihuahua too. No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Danm, Seamus and his crew are getting harder and harder to get fit off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Ya, that is the benefit of puppets from the crows (resser) side of the hut. On the other hand, the nurse isn't all that strong (2 rips and 8 def) and shouldn't be that hard to take out, and if you bring the judge, his Stay Dead ability will keep them from coming back to life and from the upgrades being available. That is what I think is the real beauty of this game. Yes there are some really tough abilities / actions / combos. But for every one I have found, I have found something else that will either negate or work really well against that combination. So Seamus can play a game of attrition, use speed, pick up work benches, send in an assassination attempt, or try to pick at him from a distance with niño or the ice golem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyce Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 All good questions! I really like to see such an active community for this game. Responses always happen so quickly! Concerning your comment that Seamus is getting harder to deal with may I suggest a comment that was made responding to dealing with the Ice Golem that would also apply here. Make sure you spend the earlier parts of the turn dodging your opponents attacks with Crow cards. This way if your opponent wants to hit you they much spend their own Crow cards to meet the suit requirement of your dodge. This will empty their hand of these cards so they are not there when you decide to target their rotten belle later! Honestly the more you play the game, the deeper the game will becomes. I am seeing more cool things to do with each playthrough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Honestly the more you play the game, the deeper the game will becomes. I am seeing more cool things to do with each playthrough! This is why I love the game. I can hardly wait for the next expansions (hint, hint) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bohemian Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Good strategy Psyce. There are only so many crow cards in the deck. Forcing a player to use cards is always a good strategy. One of those times the draw won't been to their liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Since I'm so lucky, that I'm able to play PW 2-3-4 times a week, I'm getting in some small debates with those I'm playing with. Guild Austringer:If Guild Austringer targets and hits an energy puppet thru a friendly puppet that has Cooties, does that transfer to the target puppet? Malifaux Cherup: Can the Malifaux Cherup make Puppet Roulette on a second enermy puppet with You can't Say No To Me? Judge:If Judge casts Pins And Needles and kills the target puppet with the first attack, is the second attack waisted? Rusty Alice:If Rusty Alice starts her turn with Magnetic Personality, can she still make her move if she ends up in an adjacent space to an enermy puppet, do to the blocking rule? Joss:How does Joss' upgrade Unreliable funktion. I can't get my head around it. Is it:Move - Action - Move - Action - Move = Suffer 1 Rip. Or.Move - Action - Move - Move = Suffer 1 Rip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Here are my takes on these questions. If Guild Austringer targets and hits an enemy puppet thru a friendly puppet that has Cooties, does that transfer to the target puppet? No, the attack (hit) originates from the Austringer, even though the attack is using a friendly puppet for targeting purposes. Thus, the friendly puppets cooties are not transferred, since the friendly puppet is not making an attack, causing rips, etc... Can the Malifaux Cherup make Puppet Roulette on a second enemy puppet with You can't Say No To Me? This is a good question...and after thinking about it for a while I am not totally sure. I could see this going either way, and both ways would make game play kind of confusing for that animation. Either yes, but if you flip a Joker or an odd card the puppet acting under "can't say no to you" is not torn apart. Or No, if there is any possibility that the action will cause the target puppet to be torn apart, the action can not be taken. While thinking about this, I came up with this situation... If you use "can't say no to you" to make a puppet (with one rip left) attack the ice golem from an adjacent space and the ice golem is torn apart all adjacent puppets will suffer one rip, thus killing the puppet under can't say no to you, which is not allowed...so can this attack not be made, or is the puppet affected by "can't say no to you" just not torn apart? If Judge casts Pins And Needles and kills the target puppet with the first attack, is the second attack waisted? Yes, the action reads "Make two Attacks against one Target Puppet in Range 2," so if the target puppet is torn apart on the first attack, no second attack is made. How does Joss' upgrade Unreliable funktion. The puppet with the IOPSD is allowed to sprint (take a third movement during its activation), but if the puppet sprints, it suffers 1 rip. During an animation, the puppet can make any combination of moves and actions that it has available. So either of the above would be valid options, and there are many more possible options (move, action, move, move, rip, action OR action, action, move, move, move, rip OR :fast action, move, :fast action, move, move rip, action...etc) Hope this helps, and kind of curious what will be said about the "can't say no to you" question Edited March 8, 2012 by Hugor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Thanks Hugor for the quick reply. The other example is also rather good, so I hope people comes with there take on the situation, regarding the Malifaux Cherup. And I still don't get Joss' upgrade. It gives you the ability to sprint, but if you do, you get a Rip. Edited March 8, 2012 by Snowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks Hugor for the quick reply. The other example is also rather good, so I hope people comes with there take on the situation, regarding the Malifaux Cherup. And I still don't get Joss' upgrade. It gives you the ability to sprint, but if you do, you get a Rip. Actually, it sounds like you get Joss's upgrade perfectly. That's what it does. But it also makes your puppet explode when it dies. So it lets you run really fast, take a rip, and then potentially explode. I'm sure there's a use for that somehow. Looks like Hugor got 'em all right. We're discussing what to do on can't say no to you. We'll get back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 We are discussing it now and our take on it is, that you can do it, becaurse you do not tear the target puppet up on "purpose". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauwolf Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you use "can't say no to you" to make a puppet (with one rip left) attack the ice golem from an adjacent space and the ice golem is torn apart all adjacent puppets will suffer one rip, thus killing the puppet under can't say no to you, which is not allowed...so can this attack not be made, or is the puppet affected by "can't say no to you" just not torn apart? I disagree on this particular example being an issue. CSNTY reads "This Action can not Tear Apart the target Puppet." In your example, CSNTY is not causing the targeted model to be torn apart by the Attack Action performed, the Ice Golem's Ability "Rigged to Blow" is. Therefore, in my eyes, it is a valid (and wonderfully devious!) play. As for the Roulette, I suppose since there is a definite possibility of having the targeted puppet torn apart by the action, that action would not be valid. Unreliable is one of the sweetest attachment Abilities in the game. Give it to an Ice Golem with one stitch left and kamikaze him into a pack of puppets. Two wounds for everyone! Fullborer routinely uses that move to clear the battlefield in our games. Jerk.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 If you use "can't say no to you" to make a puppet (with one rip left) attack the ice golem from an adjacent space and the ice golem is torn apart all adjacent puppets will suffer one rip, thus killing the puppet under can't say no to you, which is not allowed...so can this attack not be made, or is the puppet affected by "can't say no to you" just not torn apart? I disagree on this particular example being an issue. CSNTY reads "This Action can not Tear Apart the target Puppet." In your example, CSNTY is not causing the targeted model to be torn apart by the Attack Action performed, the Ice Golem's Ability "Rigged to Blow" is. Therefore, in my eyes, it is a valid (and wonderfully devious!) play. Pretty sure Tauwolf has the right of this, the CSNTY action isn't causing the Puppet to be torn apart, it is an after effect of the Ice Golem being torn apart by the action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I agree that it can be read that way, and feel like it is better if that is how it ends up working...it is a tough world for a puppet that cannot say no, and I assume that the original intention of the rule was to keep people from using the ability to auto kill Ronin with garage sale or use one of the abilities that requires the additional cost of a rip to kill puppets. On the other hand, as the rule is written, it kind of can be interpreted either way, and i was just trying to come up with the most out there situation in which the puppet would die to see what those behind the current had to say about it. Unreliable is one of the sweetest attachment Abilities in the game. Give it to an Ice Golem with one stitch left and kamikaze him into a pack of puppets. Two wounds for everyone! Fullborer routinely uses that move to clear Is this how that would work? While I think that is amazing, since the ability, Rigged to Blow are the same on both cards, I would think when the ice golem is torn apart adjacent puppets only suffer one rip, since the rules say that things like sprint, do not stack, and I assume the same would be true of Riged to Blow. Fullborer may not only be a jerk, but an unintentional cheat. :1_Happy_Puppet1: although I have to admit I have unintentionally cheated in this game far more than I would like to admit... :Hiding_Puppet: Edited March 9, 2012 by Hugor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 although I have to admit I have unintentionally cheated in this game far more than I would like to admit... :Hiding_Puppet: Haven't we all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tauwolf Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Is this how that would work? ... since the ability, Rigged to Blow are the same on both cards, I would think when the ice golem is torn apart adjacent puppets only suffer one rip, since the rules say that things like sprint, do not stack, and I assume the same would be true of Riged to Blow. Well hot damn, you're right. They're the same ability, so they wouldn't stack. Good catch! ---------- Post added at 02:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 AM ---------- Haven't we all... Amen brutha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Lucky Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Okay I'm fairly sure I know the ruling on this one, but I wanted to double check. Rusty Alice Vs. Teddy w/ 1 Teddy Upgrade and one other upgrade She hits him, deals one rip, pulls off the upgrade of her choice, the Teddy upgrade. Does Teddy die? He has two life, dmg dealt- 1 life and 1 rip, upgrade removed---Dead or not dead? I'm thinking dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You have to Rip off the Stitches on the Puppet before Upgrades, however Teddies gain a additional Stitch for each upgrade due to the Power of Friendship. So the Teddy has at the start 3 Stitches. 1 Naturally and one for each upgrade. So the Rip goes on the Main Puppet Teddy, The Teddy Upgrade gets removed. So he should have 1 Rip left for the other Upgrade. But be alive. The Power of Friendship!!!: This Puppet gains +1 Stitch for each Upgrade on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Lucky Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ah! I misread the card assuming that only Teddy upgrades gave it the plus one stitch. So if the Teddy had only one upgrade, it would be dead then right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ah! I misread the card assuming that only Teddy upgrades gave it the plus one stitch. So if the Teddy had only one upgrade, it would be dead then right? Yep.. The Rip would go on the original Teddy and then the card would be removed leaving not Stitches left on the Puppet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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