JisaacT Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just some background. I have 2 crews i'd say im an intermediate player at this point now. I play often. I got Lilith with her V2 card and that's all I have known. When trying to find info on her it is difficult because people still talk about V1 card. confusing. Lilith's master of malifaux allows her to ignore terrain when drawing LOS. Does this apply for charges? Can I charge around a corner as long as I am in range? I have only played one game with her and I want to make sure I know all the rules for Master of Malifaux before i play again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 The main difference between the book 1 and 2 cards is the type of terrain she is immune to I believe. In book 1 she could pretty much do what she liked, but when the v2 card came out this was changed to 'natural' terrain types, in line with her fluff, but yeah Im pretty sure it still applies to charges etc. (please someone correct me if i'm wrong here!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yep, you ignore terrain-related LoS for charges too. You still can't move through impassible terrain, but you can charge in a straight line to hit an ennemy you couldn't normally "see" as long as you don't go through impassible terrain and are in melee range when you're trying to hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 You can't move through walls, but you can see and attack throught wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 You always must charge in a straight line though, so you may not charge around a corner, if it requires you to turn at all from your original charge path i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 You can charge someone on the other side of a wall as long as the wall is less than two inches thick. This is even more fun if they can't get around the wall without leaving your melee range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagi21 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 You can charge someone on the other side of a wall as long as the wall is less than two inches thick. This is even more fun if they can't get around the wall without leaving your melee range. Is that still legal? I thought you couldn't attack or move through walls with V2 making the whole master of malifaux thing mostly for spell los and charging through forests and such obscuring terrain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Is that still legal? I thought you couldn't attack or move through walls with V2 making the whole master of malifaux thing mostly for spell los and charging through forests and such obscuring terrain... Master of Malifaux applies whenever you draw LoS... that includes Charges and Strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requirement Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 The main difference between the book 1 and 2 cards is the type of terrain she is immune to I believe. In book 1 she could pretty much do what she liked, but when the v2 card came out this was changed to 'natural' terrain types, in line with her fluff, but yeah Im pretty sure it still applies to charges etc. (please someone correct me if i'm wrong here!) This is the way I understand it. "Natural terrain." Which, to me, does not include man-made walls; to everyone else I play with she can punch through walls all day. I've been looking for an official verdict, but none found yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is the way I understand it. "Natural terrain." Which, to me, does not include man-made walls; to everyone else I play with she can punch through walls all day. I've been looking for an official verdict, but none found yet. Id go with all non-man made structures, giving her an edge in SOME games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would assume with how often this has been brought up in the past that if the rules marshals meant she couldn't attack through walls they would have addressed it by now. I agree that it seems odd, but maybe they left it that way to help balance her "underpoweredness" compared to the other Neverborn masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgbsamurai Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 The main change between V1 and V2 was that she can't move through solid terrain. The old wording made it possible for her to pass through walls and such. The new wording is more specific in that she ignores terrain penalties and can draw LoS through terrain. She can no longer just pass through it. There is nothing in the wording that says "natural" terrain. Not sure where this or the 2" rule is coming from above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Q Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 She ignores terrain for LoS. Models can make a strike against anything in LoS and range, so she can attack through walls, etc. as long as the target is within 2" (her melee range). Her movement got changed on the v2 card. She now simply ignores hazardous, severe and water terrain. She used to be able to move through anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 She ignores terrain for LoS. Models can make a strike against anything in LoS and range, so she can attack through walls, etc. as long as the target is within 2" (her melee range). Her movement got changed on the v2 card. She now simply ignores hazardous, severe and water terrain. She used to be able to move through anything. This is a far better presentation of what I was trying to say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Just so that we know that we're all talking about the same thing, this is the full text of the rule from her V2 card: Master of Malifaux: This model ignores hazardous, severe, and water terrain effects when moving. This model ignores terrain when drawing LoS. There's nothing in there about "natural terrain". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 The main difference between the book 1 and 2 cards is the type of terrain she is immune to I believe. In book 1 she could pretty much do what she liked, but when the v2 card came out this was changed to 'natural' terrain types, in line with her fluff, but yeah Im pretty sure it still applies to charges etc. (please someone correct me if i'm wrong here!) This is pretty much incorrect when it comes to the LoS issues. Her movement abilities have indeed been defined more precisely, but that doesn't affect the OP's question. There is no such thing as "natural" terrain in Malifaux. Everything on the table, which has a base (real or virtual) is terrain. If you have a hill on a base, it is terrain. If you have a modeled terrain with clearly visible hill, you assume there is a virtual base the size of the "shade" of the terrain and she can still ignore it. Same for fences, houses, trees and such. It's all in the Terrain rules. Lilith's ability to ignore movement penalties is now limited to Hazardous, Severe and Water terrain, which may still be any kind of terrain on the table, as long as it has these characteristics. As for drawing LoS, she ignores any terrain whatsoever. Drawing LoS is important when determining the legality of the target - for the target to be legal it must be within range and LoS. Obstacles (terrain) may give cover from ranged attacks, but don't affect melee. In other words, when Lilith wants to charge or strike someone, or target the model with Transposition, she can target them even if they stand behind a piece of terrain, as long as they are in range of her attack. She can strike through solid walls, mountains and trees and if she charges someone on the other side of a wall, for example, she can charge to within 2" in straight line and then attack through the wall. She will also keep that model engaged in melee and can make her Disengaging Strikes against it. ---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ---------- I would assume with how often this has been brought up in the past that if the rules marshals meant she couldn't attack through walls they would have addressed it by now. I agree that it seems odd, but maybe they left it that way to help balance her "underpoweredness" compared to the other Neverborn masters. Not only it is intended, but in fact there was a period in the Book 1 when she lost that ability (due to some changes to targeting) and it was specifically restored to her when the Rules Manual and V2 cards came out. I believe there even was a post by Weird Sketch explaining this is by design. If you read her Book 1 and Wyrd Chronicles fluff (IIRC), the ability is quite in character and not odd at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 My post was supposed to be a little sarcastic. I remember when she lost the ability. If I remember correctly it was restored in about a week or two. The rule change basically only affected the incredibly cheesy tactic of moving through a wall, attacking something with melee expert, and moving back through a wall. Though I suppose spirits can do this all day long if they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Except only a few spirits can even attempt that as most Spirits don't have extra action abilities, off the top of my head only 3 do, and of the ones who can none of them are as large a beatstick as Lilith is. *wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 If I recall correctly they can also move vertically through terrain, and I don't think Lilith can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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