da,na,na,na,na,na Hoffman!

[TimeLapse]

Holy steal robots hoffman!

Hi everyone I am putting together some hoffman lists and im not sure what way I should go, here are the 2 25ss lists anf there corresponding 35ss lists.

List 1 the warden list

25ss

Hoffman 4ss catch

peacekeeper 9ss

hunter 6ss

warden 5ss

warden 5ss

30ss

+ 1 Warden 5ss

35ss

+ 2 wardens 10ss

List 2, the mixer

Hoffman 4ss catch

peacekeeper 9ss

soul stone miner 7ss

Watcher 3ss

Hunter 6ss

30ss

+ 1 Warden 5ss

35ss

+ 2 wardens 10ss

So waht do you think? The first list is just about speed, and getting objectives and the 2nd is about bulking out the hoffman.

What are you running and what works well with the hoffman?

Anyhelp with the lists would be most welcome,

-Andrew

[micahwc]

How keen are you on having the hunter in your first list? Most people don't seem to give the hunter much love. I have rarely used one, but could see a place for him in a large game.

I think either another warden and a soul stone, or a pair of watchers would be a better investment. But if you like the hunter than the list is fine.

[TimeLapse]

How keen are you on having the hunter in your first list? Most people don't seem to give the hunter much love. I have rarely used one, but could see a place for him in a large game.

I think either another warden and a soul stone, or a pair of watchers would be a better investment. But if you like the hunter than the list is fine.

Well, the hunter is mainly in my list because of the fluff in the books. Im not hard set on having it.

[KeaponLaffin]

I'm really happy with:

Mobile Toolkit [4ss]

Guardian [7ss]

Peacekeeper [9ss]

Ryle, Guild Pawn [8ss]

Watcher [3ss]

Watcher [3ss]

There's enough units that I'm usually getting the full +5 casting, and the watchers are great at claiming objectives (if not much more than that).

[TimeLapse]

I'm really happy with:

Mobile Toolkit [4ss]

Guardian [7ss]

Peacekeeper [9ss]

Ryle, Guild Pawn [8ss]

Watcher [3ss]

Watcher [3ss]

There's enough units that I'm usually getting the full +5 casting, and the watchers are great at claiming objectives (if not much more than that).

I thought of useing watchers for objective grabbing but the wardens are a bit faster and can fight. Im having an issue with ryle being so pricey. Im not sure about useing him with he peacekeeper that's alot of points in 2 models. We play alot of 25 -30ss games down here.

I do not think having a 4ss totem that is only there to get slow is worth it. The easy to wound and low health makes me think 4ss is a bit much in a ramos list its worth it since he uses alot of what the totem has to offer, though I am not sure hoffman needs a totem.

The guardian im intrested in, does he slow the list down alot? How do you use him?

[TimeLapse]

Heh just had an idea let me know if im doing this right,

30ss list

Hoffman 5ss

soul stone miner 7ss

Guardain 7ss

peacekeeper 9ss

Watcher 3ss/His totem

Watcher 3ss

Okay turn one first action the guardain in base contact with the peacekeeper activates and does sheild wall. 2nd activation hoffman does overide ond the Guardain and gains reactivate though assimilate. Guardain does something clever. 3rd activation hoffman steals the bury effect from the SS miner so he can keep his upgrades, makes the SS miner slow to gain fast.

So after the first turn hoffman gains and keeps, reactivate, fast and the ability to burry.

Next turn I activate the guardian and he does sheild wall again. 2nd activation the ss miner takes wounds to become melee +2. 3rd activation hoffman steals melee +2, casts overide on the guardain and does some other things. The guardain goes and casts the +2 armor for things in base contact. The peace keeper now has amour +8, that hoffman now steals and then after his 2nd activation he uses his last action to burry himself.

Homan is now has fast, has reactivate, the power to burry, armor +8 and melee +2. Next turn he grabs relentless off of the peace keeper and self repair off of the guardain and so on.

Hehe In base contact with a guardain with its +2 armour boost hamilan is amor+10.

This of course only works if I am able to bury hoffman each turn so the fast + 1 on the 2nd activation will be dedacated to burring.

Oh yeah and slow to die would be good to grab with my 5ss catch just in case. I figure I set up the first 2 turns then unleash the monster that is hoffman.

What do you guys think?

[KeaponLaffin]

I haven't tried the Wardens out. Will give that a go.

Re: Mobile Toolkit easy to wound: Hoffman's maintain machines means you can ignore that I think. Having said that, a PK, Ryle, Guardian and 2xWardens sounds nice (for 35 pts)

I think Ryle is worth every penny (or soulstone). You can get 10 shots off in a round with Ryle + Fast Hoff Machine Puppet and Ryle has a good chance of getting extra damage flips.

So, Ryle makes it *really* dangerous for your opponent to be within 12".. but if they close to melee range you've got a reactivating, machine puppetted peacekeeper to deal with.

Re: the bury trick.. I haven't tried it but it seems like you'd spend the whole game tweaking Hoff and not focused on your strategies. Maybe with the right strategy (against the right opponent).

I have the guardian cast protect on hoff round 1, hoff assimilates protect and casts it on the peacekeeper.. so damage on the PK may optionally be funnelled back to either Hoff or Guardian. I kinda alternate between having the guardian soak the damage and hoffman. Then the guardian's self-repair causes hoffman to get a healing flip too. If you have the mobile toolkit, it can do another heal (which would give hoffman yet another healing flip).. so you've got 4 healing flips out of nothing but a 0-action and your totem activation.

re: guardian's movement - the PK moves up to 15", hoff hitches a ride and the "handy" mobile toolkit follows so you have a "train" of sorts behind the PK.. and you just need to get the guardian within 6" of the toolkit by the end of the turn (maybe via a recactivate) so it can spring into base to base (preferably at the "far end" of the toolkit into base to base with Hoff as well).

Between the protects & heals + shield wall armor, I think the hoff ball is pretty much invulnerable... so I just move it as quick as I can into a good position and start kicking ass. The biggest issue I find is strategies that require lots of models.

We usually play 35 points so my style might not work well for less.. but the one time we played 25 pts recently I took the PK & Ryle and 2 watchers (skipped Guardian) and it was fine.. I was just way more vulnerable than I'm used to being.

[Cadilon]

Re: Mobile Toolkit easy to wound: Hoffman's maintain machines means you can ignore that I think.

Nice catch. This one slipped by me, but I believe its correct.

Re: the bury trick.. I haven't tried it but it seems like you'd spend the whole game tweaking Hoff and not focused on your strategies. Maybe with the right strategy (against the right opponent).

This is what I've found. Handy little trick, but not sure its something to base a whole strategy off of. Haven't thought about Reactivate surviving the End Closing Phase though. Thought after the activation was used, it was gone. Have to think about this more...

Then the guardian's self-repair causes hoffman to get a healing flip too. If you have the mobile toolkit, it can do another heal (which would give hoffman yet another healing flip).. so you've got 4 healing flips out of nothing but a 0-action and your totem activation.

I am not seeing how to get all these healing flips. Feedback only allows you to heal 1 Wd when a friendly construct heals, not take a flip.

[DocMoen]

I find that the Hunter is nigh on useless in most games. To be the most effective he needs to be on his own, therefore taking a construct away from the Hoff's giant living machine.

For 25ss I have decent luck with:

C. Hoffman 5ss or 4ss pool

Mechanical Attendant [3ss] -or- Mobile Toolkit [4ss] (depending on strategy)

Guardian [7ss]

Peacekeeper [9ss]

Warden [5ss]

And for 35ss I am undefeated using:

C. Hoffman 4ss pool

Mechanical Attendant [3ss]

Guardian [7ss]

Peacekeeper [9ss]

Ryle, Guild Pawn [8ss]

Warden [5ss]

Watcher [3ss]

Hope this helps!

[KeaponLaffin]

Damn. My bad re: Feedback.

DocMoen: That 35 pt list looks nice. I haven't tried the Mechanical Attendant yet. I ought to.

Has anyone tried bringing an Arachnid Swarm? I brought Joss in a few games but he was just too brittle. The swarm can heal nicely and is the same cost.

[TimeLapse]

I used the swarm my first game and it was handy, its was okay I ended up splitting it to get more constructs near hoffman. Then swaming them up again when they were threatend but for the points I would go 2 wardens all the way more useful and can paralyze

[TimeLapse]

KeaponLaffin - yeah I am thinking the same with the bury trick, It really depends on the mission, intreact missions may not be choice but in a slaughter a bury shenanigans list may be the right choice.. maybe. Its a hard call since the lists are always in flux depending on who you play and what the vp objectives are.

Also how do you get ten shoots out of ryle, are you counting on having the enamy bunch up so that automatic goes of at 3 targets, he shoots his range expert and the hoffman puppets him for 3 more shots, that's only 7 shoots. First I thought you reactivates him through overide but you can't do that because of breach peychosis unless you can chose not to be immune to some things. Also I thought of useing maintain machine but that only targets freindly models and ryle does not count as freindly so you can't remove abilities... so im sorta stumped here.

But after reading your guys respnce I think I need to pick up ryle and the guardian for my list. For now im useing man of war kador models for my wardens till they come out.

I have the tool kit but im still not seeing why I really need to be spending 4ss on it, it seems so pricey for a simple heal flip. What makes him really worth an atuo include in so many lists?

Edited January 4, 2012 by TimeLapse

[micahwc]

Also how do you get ten shoots out of ryle, are you counting on having the enamy bunch up so that automatic goes of at 3 targets, he shoots his range expert and the hoffman puppets him for 3 more shots, that's only 7 shoots. First I thought you reactivates him through overide but you can't do that because of breach peychosis unless you can chose not to be immune to some things. Also I thought of useing maintain machine but that only targets freindly models and ryle does not count as freindly so you can't remove abilities... so im sorta stumped here.

Ryle shoots 3 times, is machine puppeted for 1 more, is reactivated for 3 more and if Lucius is near by is issued commands for even more.

Hoffman can make constructs ignore their negative abilities through one of his special rules. I believe it is "maintain machines". Rules marshals ruled this as legal in a post somewhere.

[TimeLapse]

Ryle shoots 3 times, is machine puppeted for 1 more, is reactivated for 3 more and if Lucius is near by is issued commands for even more.

Hoffman can make constructs ignore their negative abilities through one of his special rules. I believe it is "maintain machines". Rules marshals ruled this as legal in a post somewhere.

Well the issue I have with that is that Ryle has the rule that he cannot be considered freindly, and hoffman ability to take abilities away says freindly models may ingore ablitites. Since ryle is not a friendly model and hoffs maintain machine that only works on friendly models I would conclude that it wont work on ryle. Unless there is something im missing here.

[DocMoen]

Well the issue I have with that is that Ryle has the rule that he cannot be considered freindly, and hoffman ability to take abilities away says freindly models may ingore ablitites. Since ryle is not a friendly model and hoffs maintain machine that only works on friendly models I would conclude that it wont work on ryle. Unless there is something im missing here.

You have it right as far as I can tell, but Ryle not being friendly has never been a hindrance to me. Machine Puppet and Override Edict work just fine on him, which is really why you hired him in the first place. I rarely have him involved in the Hoffman mosh pit, which is the only place friendly really matters.

Edited January 4, 2012 by DocMoen

[DocMoen]

Damn. My bad re: Feedback.

DocMoen: That 35 pt list looks nice. I haven't tried the Mechanical Attendant yet. I ought to.

Has anyone tried bringing an Arachnid Swarm? I brought Joss in a few games but he was just too brittle. The swarm can heal nicely and is the same cost.

I love the Mech Attendant. His gun is akin to Ryle's and does decent damage, not to mention he is not insignificant, which is always a plus.

I tend to stay away from Arcanist models, especially first book models. Hoffman's Guild constructs cost enough as it is, having to pay even more for arguably similar models seems silly.

That being said, I hear the Soulstone Miner is pretty interesting with the "Hoffman in a Box" tactic and I am going to try a Large Steampunk Arachnid this weekend actually. At 6ss they are the same price as a Hunter with better maneuverability and armor-piercing.

[DocMoen]

Ryle shoots 3 times, is machine puppeted for 1 more, is reactivated for 3 more and if Lucius is near by is issued commands for even more.

Hoffman can make constructs ignore their negative abilities through one of his special rules. I believe it is "maintain machines". Rules marshals ruled this as legal in a post somewhere.

It will officially be 13 shots if the ruling goes in the favor of Hoffman being able to Assimilate Reactivate off of Ryle from Override Edict.

[KeaponLaffin]

Ah. I had been playing with Hoff's maintain machines working on Ryle. I see your point re: him not being considered friendly. Will stop that now

I'm definitely convinced. Mechanical attendant time!!

[robk]

I've been using hoffman a little bit so I'm no expert with him at all but there are some advantages of the watcher to be used as objective grabs (In strategies where timing doesn't matter).

1. They are Ht 1 and can hide all game

2. Fly and don't need to use a card to go 14"

3. Slow to die helps in a couple of stratgies (e.g. line in sand)

On the topic of a list building, I'm not sure that having all constructs is the best way to go with Hoffman. He will only ever be able to assist a certain # of models.

Override Edict, Maintain Machines, Machine puppet, etc all have a short range.

How many of your models are going to that close together.

I'm think that a Warden (When released) and at least 1 watcher are pretty mandatory in any SS crew.

I'm not sure that a peacekeeper is worth it in a 25 crew. If you include the 9 point behemoth, it means a maximum of 6 models which means:

you'll struggle out activating your opponent and then throwing hoffman in somebody's face for the beatdown.

"DON'T HASSLE THE HOFF":hoffman

[TimeLapse]

I've been using hoffman a little bit so I'm no expert with him at all but there are some advantages of the watcher to be used as objective grabs (In strategies where timing doesn't matter).

1. They are Ht 1 and can hide all game

2. Fly and don't need to use a card to go 14"

3. Slow to die helps in a couple of stratgies (e.g. line in sand)

On the topic of a list building, I'm not sure that having all constructs is the best way to go with Hoffman. He will only ever be able to assist a certain # of models.

Override Edict, Maintain Machines, Machine puppet, etc all have a short range.

How many of your models are going to that close together.

I'm think that a Warden (When released) and at least 1 watcher are pretty mandatory in any SS crew.

I'm not sure that a peacekeeper is worth it in a 25 crew. If you include the 9 point behemoth, it means a maximum of 6 models which means:

you'll struggle out activating your opponent and then throwing hoffman in somebody's face for the beatdown.

"DON'T HASSLE THE HOFF":hoffman

Yeah I have the same worry about model count, right now im am focusing on 30ss games since that's the next turnament size, but its hard to get more then 6-7 models,

Im now looking at the following after reading ppls posts

The hoff man with 4ss

Peacekepper 9ss

Ryle 8ss or the guardian 7ss

Watcher 3ss

Warden 5ss

Warden 5ss or hunter 6ss or 2 watchers 6ss

Im just need to lock down my 30ss list.

I only own a hunter, hoffman and a peacekeeper so far, and my budget is tight right now, so I needs to make a key list for the forth comming turnament. I also have up to 5 man of war warmachine models to uses as wardens.

I may just go with

Hoff 4ss

peacekeeper 9ss

hunter 6ss

warden 5ss

warden 5ss

warden 5ss

Though I would like to pick up ryle and/or the gardain and a watcher before the turnament to make sure i got list flexablity but im not sure what the store has in stock. Hmmm if only someone wanted to trade... I may have to scope out bartertown.com.

But anyways I need to hone in a 30ss core list what do you guys think of the first one and 2nd one I posted?

Edited January 5, 2012 by TimeLapse

[micahwc]

I'm not sure that a peacekeeper is worth it in a 25 crew. If you include the 9 point behemoth, it means a maximum of 6 models which means:

you'll struggle out activating your opponent and then throwing hoffman in somebody's face for the beatdown.

I would like to politely disagree with this. I have found that a reactivating peacekeeper can be even more damaging in smaller games. At 25 points a Hoffman buffed Peacekeeper can hurt some crews so much that they can't effectively fight back.

I have not tried the wardens but they look great on paper. I will buy them when they come out. I fit watchers into most of my guild lists now. And I fully agree that Hoffman doesn't need a lot of constructs, which is why I often play him with Lucius.

[TimeLapse]

We talked about the models themselfs but let's focus on hoffman for a bit,

At first look I thought the most important use of A.P. on hoffman was machine puppet witch is good but I am thinking that open circuit with empowered could be his most powerful use of A.P.

With CA of 10, and an AoE damage that does not hurt me and can get massive. In my first game I had 5 constucts in base with hoffman and I used the AoE twice and used a SS to bost my Casting total, with a CA of 10 plus two cards its almost impossable to defend Vs, and id you cast it 3 times it could send out 21 damage in one turn with 5 constucts. If you average 12 as you total flip with your ca of 10 that's 22 and will be impossable for most non masters to defend against.

What do you focus on with your hoffman, machine puppet, another talent or spell?

For me open circuit is too good not to attempt in most games.

[Slimnoid]

Hoffman's "Maintain Machines" ability does not target a specific model. Ergo, he can Machine Puppet, Heal, Dance, etc. with Ryle at his leisure.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20394&highlight=maintain+machines

[TimeLapse]

Hoffman's "Maintain Machines" ability does not target a specific model. Ergo, he can Machine Puppet, Heal, Dance, etc. with Ryle at his leisure.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20394&highlight=maintain+machines

Nice good to know.

Btw Ryles Gatling gun trait, it says " after causing severe damage with this weapon target suffers a 1/2/4..." if the 2nd damage flip is also a severe do I get another damage flip since it is still the same weapon and I caused severe damage with it?

I get that I can't with the fully atuomadic trigger but the taleint is not a trigger there for can it be apllyed each time I flip severe?

[micahwc]

We talked about the models themselfs but let's focus on hoffman for a bit,

At first look I thought the most important use of A.P. on hoffman was machine puppet witch is good but I am thinking that open circuit with empowered could be his most powerful use of A.P.

With CA of 10, and an AoE damage that does not hurt me and can get massive. In my first game I had 5 constucts in base with hoffman and I used the AoE twice and used a SS to bost my Casting total, with a CA of 10 plus two cards its almost impossable to defend Vs, and id you cast it 3 times it could send out 21 damage in one turn with 5 constucts. If you average 12 as you total flip with your ca of 10 that's 22 and will be impossable for most non masters to defend against.

What do you focus on with your hoffman, machine puppet, another talent or spell?

For me open circuit is too good not to attempt in most games.

I have usually focused on just killing things with machine puppet. Though I have had a lot of fun by making scrap counters explode. I think I need to use open circuit more.