Pandora's Mental Anguish - 'Counts as' losing a Morale Duel

[Turelio]

OK, I'm a Pandora player, and had a game against Hoffman the other night. I lost, it was a fun game, but looking back on it, I do have a question about Mental Anguish, and how far the 'counts as' goes.

I understand that they fall back, and that they count as losing a Morale Duel, which is important for things like Teddy's Smell Fear. However, after falling back, do they still need to spend the next turn rallying? More specifically, does something immune to Morale Duels have to rally on the next turn? In effect, once they stop the fall back move, are they no longer suffering from 'morale duel like' effects?

I ask as during the game I got the trigger off against Ryle and the Peacekeeper, and both spent time rallying the turn afterwards. Looking back on it, because they are generally immune to morale duels, would they fall back, 'count as' losing the morale duel for things like Smell Fear, but at the end be able to behave normally as they haven't actually suffered a Morale Duel, and would usually not be taking the tests anyway?

Just looking for clarification, as when I thought back about the game, it seemed to be too convenient for me, and the last times that things like that happened, it was me reading the rules wrong.

[Wolfgar]

If you are made to fall back, you rally. So yeah, stuff that would normally be immune rallies if it has to fall back.

[Mike3838]

They're immune to the duel only. Once you bypass the duel, they aren't immune to any of the after effects. So you played it correctly.

Mike

[dbr_83]

I have this argument with someone at my LGS fairly often... but you are correct, ''Count as'' means the target suffers all the effects of losing a morale duel, without the duel ever happening.

As a side note for a new Pandora player, use that trigger with Dementia, and there is a possibility that the target is out for the entire game... It will win you games, but not many friends if used too often lol

[Turelio]

Thanks all! I appreciate the quick responses!

[Wolfgar]

Not sure our answers line up, but happy to be of assistance!

[fixerupperguy]

As a side note for a new Pandora player, use that trigger with Dementia, and there is a possibility that the target is out for the entire game... It will win you games, but not many friends if used too often lol

What would happen to that model? It goes to take the (2) Pass, fails the dementia duel, then what? Would the model just continue to fall back and lose its activation?

[Ratty]

What would happen to that model? It goes to take the (2) Pass, fails the dementia duel, then what? Would the model just continue to fall back and lose its activation?

Rallying

A falling back model spends its next activation to rally. Until the end of that activation, the falling back model cannot perform any general or specific movement Actions and receives to any Duels it must perform except for Morale Duels. After the end of the model’s activation, it is no longer falling back, becomes rallied, and may continue to act as normal. Models passing their activation due to Paralyzed are rallied at the end of that activation.

The model no longer has to perform an action to rally. It just needs to start an activation after falling back. It doesn't even need to pass, it can perform actions as long as they don't contain movement effects. E.G. a falling back Kirai could heal herself as a 0 action and attempt to summon spirits. The only issue is that it still counts as falling back for this activation so gets a on it's duels.

[magicpockets]

And remember, passing an AP is an action so you need to flip for dementia on that at a too

[dbr_83]

Oh... well balls =p I have never managed to pull it off, but was salivating at the chance to... thanks for raining on my dreams Ratty lol

But seriously, thanks for pointing that out, I would have felt like an ass to find that out AFTER the fact

[mark.long]

They're immune to the duel only. Once you bypass the duel, they aren't immune to any of the after effects. So you played it correctly.

Mike

So having Alone in the dark as a random event would cause any model (construct, undead, whatever) falling back to die instead, am I correct? Slim chance of ever having the Pandora/Alone in the dark combo I suppose but hey how powerful would that be!

[Ratty]

Yep, she could make a Construct fall back and that in turn would cause it to be removed as a casualty.