More Arcanists fun-Ramos!!

[M_Ruckuss]

Ok, So have been increasingly hearing the call of the arcanists recently (stemming from me love of Collette since first playing the game) and have x2 Arcanist Crews I want to be as built as possible by the end of 2011 (25ss Marcus Crew and 35ss Collette crew).

I made the mistake (the good kind!) of buying the alternate Ramos today- what a cool model....need to use him in a crew-hes such a great mini!

So Ramos seems very vulnerable compared to every other master I have played, but has some cool tricks up his sleeve....Obviously need to learn to play with him through gametime, but would appreciate some 25ss/35ss crew advice...

Totem- Arachnid- Stoke looks awesome... cast cost isnt. Essence of power-great if you want to shoot stuff...but then I should have taken Tina....So leaves me with Toolkit for 3ss... sold

Along with Zoraida, his avatar looks like an autopick for me, and although im paying ss for the totem, it will let me get out the avatar all the sooner.

So with 5ss spent and an existing cache of 2 I get stuck! These are the options (along with corphyree duet-have this model already so will use for some missions)- any advice is appreciated!

Joss- 9ss melee madness

X 3 Steam punk Arachnid- 9ss grunts

Electrical Creation (summoned)Damage output

Cassandra- 9ss- melee and shenanigans

Mechanical Rider- 8ss melee

Soulstone Miner 6ss melee and shenanigans

Guardian 8ss

Alyce 10ss

Edited December 24, 2011 by McDoogle

[tadaka]

You need an electrical creation.

Beyond that i would recomend

Avatar

Moble tool kit

Avatar comes with a spider swarm i would get at least 1 more

Large steampunk aracnid x2

Ss miner

[Backno]

^^^^^^^

Great minds and all that jazz

Things that you will want with him:

-2 Swarms, 6 Spiders (you can use magnets and get away with only needing 2 blisters

-1 or 2 Large Steampunk Arachnids. Avatar Ramos can make these

-Mechanical Rider. Gives your crew some speed.

-Soul Stone Miner

-Electrical Creation

Edited December 24, 2011 by Backno

[M_Ruckuss]

You need an electrical creation.

Beyond that i would recomend

Avatar

Moble tool kit

Avatar comes with a spider swarm i would get at least 1 more

Large steampunk aracnid x2

Ss miner

^^^^^^^

Great minds and all that jazz

Things that you will want with him:

-2 Swarms, 6 Spiders (you can use magnets and get away with only needing 2 blisters

-1 or 2 Large Steampunk Arachnids. Avatar Ramos can make these

-Mechanical Rider. Gives your crew some speed.

-Soul Stone Miner

-Electrical Creation

Thanks for the speedy replies guys So:

• Take it by lack of comment I was on the right tack with the totem
  
• Electrical Creation is a given-that much I can see
  
• You take the arachnid swarms because they are your grunts, You take the large arachnids because a) Avatar can summon them and b)They can speed up getting avatar out.
  
• Avatar is awesome
  
• Mechanical Rider looks the $$$$$$$$ and is quick/awesome
  
• SSM can give extra ss.
  

4Questions:

1. Is the above correct?
   
   
2. 18 ss seems alot to spend on spiders- are they really essential to his play style?
   
   
3. DO cassandra, alyce and Joss not get their bang for the buck with ramos.
   
   
4. What do you think of lazarus....
   

EDIT: Or was that take 1 base, the rest to be summoned.

Ramos

Avatar 2ss

ToolKit 3ss

Lazarus 9ss

3 Spiders 9ss

+4 To my Cache

Mechanical Rider

So have a big(er) cache as is appears avatar eats soulstones. Will have a mixture of wardens and large steampunk arachnids to summon. Totem their to get avatar early in game (or so I can sit back and castle up). Lazarus and Rider their to bring the pain! Spiders their for intial scrap counters and to turn into a swarm later in game...

Sound idea for a starting crew?

Edited December 24, 2011 by McDoogle

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

At 25 ss a totem and avatar is too much. Also laz will be competing for precious scraps at that point. You can drop one spider with idea that you will summon another. They don't have to bought in 3s. Also not hard to still summon by turn 2 or 3 without totem, so no point since totem won't really offer any other return.

Rusty Alice or mechanical rider would be better than laz. Rusty with avatar is awesome. Rusty without totem and no laz. Or take out totem take rider, drop spider and bring ss miner. Those are my suggestions. Ss miner can farm stones and be healed by Ramos while you are getting spiders ready. This can work well to get you a huge pool to hit mid game.

[Writer@Large]

Glad to see this thread. I was just about to come and post about needing a 25ss Ramos list. I'm a newbie with limited model access, but not adverse to some additional purchasing. The setup is there's going to be a 25ss league in my store. One list plays through all three weeks. Scenarios and schemes are pre-determined.

Right now, I have the Ramos box, an Electrical Creation, Joss, Johan, a Colette box, and a Coryphee blister. 25ss feels really limiting for Ramos (but to be fair I've only played one game with him [one game of Mal, period]).

I like the idea of pairing Joss and a Brass Arachnid, just for the possibility of getting three activations in one turn when the timing is right. So I'll probably use him as my melee beatstick over Steamborg. I think an arachnid swarm / 3 arachnids is a must. But that's already 20ss, and I have no idea what to do with the other 5!

In my current collection, Johan is the only thing that fits. But that would leave me with only a 2ss pool. I just don't know ..

[tadaka]

This is my personal thoughts on totem spiders and avatar.

I never realy hire more than 3 small spiders normaly 2. If you want to do magnet thing you can get by with just 3. I find it more trouble then its worth.

Totem+avatar

Hire tool kit give ramos book for cast kill totem give ramos scrap. Make swarm and electrical creation first turn.

You still get full movement with him first turn. Your trading a 3 ss model for a 3 ss model.

Stupidly easy way to get first avatar requirement and you can avoid spending any good first turn books you will want later.

Large spiders are very good for there cost. Few models have a 3rd action point for such a cheep point cost. They are the lowest ss to scrap ratio in game. Ramos avatar likes a lot of scrap available.

[tadaka]

Just an fyi you cant activate more then 2x a turn. Sorry but that joss combo does not work.

Overall i find joss to be a little to easy to kill for his ss cost. I dont often play him.

Laz is over all pritty awsome. I would wait till model comes out but thats just me.

I dont think casandra plays well if she does not have use ss. Try her out its not that ahes bad but she is much much better with collette.

Alice was a lot better before moble tool kit. Now i would rather just take that. Shes not bad just better uses of 10ss imho

Edited December 24, 2011 by tadaka

[TimeLapse]

Hi, I been playing around with the avitar as late and the toolkit is a great investments.

I always use controlled detonation before the avatar comes out.

Bring a large spider for 5ss to CD it to gain 3 scrap counters is handy. Normaly on turn one I make both a spider and the EC then on turn two I control detonation the large A and the tool kit then avatar out. With 4 scrap counters to make 2 more large A.

Just ideas.

[Twisted Metal]

Bring a large spider for 5ss to CD it to gain 3 scrap counters is handy. Normaly on turn one I make both a spider and the EC then on turn two I control detonation the large A and the tool kit then avatar out. With 4 scrap counters to make 2 more large A.

How are you able to get three scrap from a large SPA? Its a 40mm base and will only drop two unless im missing something. Also how are you doing two contolled detonations on turn two and bringing out the avatar in the same turn? On turn two its an (All) action to avatar.

[HeavensWrath]

Lspa is 50mm, and totem cd's spider first turn andbitself second.

[Twisted Metal]

Ok they must have changed it because the book states 40mm and it wasn’t mentioned in the rules clarifications under the rising powers section.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Twisted Metal

[M_Ruckuss]

At 25 ss a totem and avatar is too much. Also laz will be competing for precious scraps at that point. You can drop one spider with idea that you will summon another. They don't have to bought in 3s. Also not hard to still summon by turn 2 or 3 without totem, so no point since totem won't really offer any other return.

Rusty Alice or mechanical rider would be better than laz. Rusty with avatar is awesome. Rusty without totem and no laz. Or take out totem take rider, drop spider and bring ss miner. Those are my suggestions. Ss miner can farm stones and be healed by Ramos while you are getting spiders ready. This can work well to get you a huge pool to hit mid game.

This is my personal thoughts on totem spiders and avatar.

I never realy hire more than 3 small spiders normaly 2. If you want to do magnet thing you can get by with just 3. I find it more trouble then its worth.

Totem+avatar

Hire tool kit give ramos book for cast kill totem give ramos scrap. Make swarm and electrical creation first turn.

You still get full movement with him first turn. Your trading a 3 ss model for a 3 ss model.

Stupidly easy way to get first avatar requirement and you can avoid spending any good first turn books you will want later.

Large spiders are very good for there cost. Few models have a 3rd action point for such a cheep point cost. They are the lowest ss to scrap ratio in game. Ramos avatar likes a lot of scrap available.

Just an fyi you cant activate more then 2x a turn. Sorry but that joss combo does not work.

Overall i find joss to be a little to easy to kill for his ss cost. I dont often play him.

Laz is over all pritty awsome. I would wait till model comes out but thats just me.

I dont think casandra plays well if she does not have use ss. Try her out its not that ahes bad but she is much much better with collette.

Alice was a lot better before moble tool kit. Now i would rather just take that. Shes not bad just better uses of 10ss imho

Hi, I been playing around with the avitar as late and the toolkit is a great investments.

I always use controlled detonation before the avatar comes out.

Bring a large spider for 5ss to CD it to gain 3 scrap counters is handy. Normaly on turn one I make both a spider and the EC then on turn two I control detonation the large A and the tool kit then avatar out. With 4 scrap counters to make 2 more large A.

Just ideas.

Thanks for all of the feedback guys.

Take suggestions about LSA-think he will work nicely with his 50mm base. Can also see the potential of the SS miner(with healing flip thanks to Ramos-particularly when he a's up).

@Bigglesworth- totally get your point abut 25ss with totem and avatar-what do you think of the 30ss list above?

I think my purchases will consist of avatar, ss miner, extra base of arachnids, toolkit, 2 LSA and probably Joss (there is a game in the future when he will go all 'injun and take apart a crew by himself- imagine him reactivating and laying the whoopass on a master, perhaps hard-to-kill seamus- would be awesome!

For now, however,here are 2 lists for me to try:

Ramos

Avatar 2ss

ToolKit 3ss

Lazarus 9ss

2 LSA 10ss

+3 To my Cache

Mechanical Rider

Ramos

Avatar 2ss

ToolKit 3ss

2 LSA 10ss

Soulstone Miner 6ss

Mechanical Rider and Soulstone Miner OR

Lazarus and LSA

Again thanks to all for their time and advice....

Edited December 24, 2011 by McDoogle

[tadaka]

Welcome hope it helped

[Writer@Large]

Just an fyi you cant activate more then 2x a turn. Sorry but that joss combo does not work.

Overall i find joss to be a little to easy to kill for his ss cost. I dont often play him

I see the rule now. Drat. Sad panda.

I still like Joss. I need some sort of heavy hitter for my list. I've considered Coryphee Duet, but I'm still trying to figure them out.

In any case, I think I might go the brass arachnid out for that Stoke. I see Reactivate as a valuable ability for any heavy hitter to have.

Why do so many people favor the Toolkit?

[M_Ruckuss]

I see the rule now. Drat. Sad panda.

I still like Joss. I need some sort of heavy hitter for my list. I've considered Coryphee Duet, but I'm still trying to figure them out.

In any case, I think I might go the brass arachnid out for that Stoke. I see Reactivate as a valuable ability for any heavy hitter to have.

Why do so many people favor the Toolkit?

Well I am theory-fauxing here, but the Arachnid gives you stoke and a better cast value for magical extension. Not bad, but the reactivate needs an 11 tome to go off....if your taking joss and Ramos, thats already 3 models competing for those high tomes...

By comparison, toolkit is 1 ss more expensive, but entirely elimates ramos dependency on tomes- he can cast whatever the heck he likes with any cards. I am pretty sure that kind of buff isnt avaliable with any other totem for any other master. Most people seem to be running the avatar (his and zoraidas seem autopicks) and it allows you to get it out turn 2...

Sure reactivate is great, and some players with actual experience may well say its situational, and i defer, but on paper, id rather the toolkit anyday.

[HeavensWrath]

Joss is actually extremely good at what he does. The trick to using him properly is keeping him shielded by terrain until he can make his crushing charge. He has massive damage potential and paired weapons. Ive had really good luck with him all around. The only problem with Joss isn't his fault. It's that he is now competing with the mech rider to an extent for a crew slot.

[tadaka]

Eh I dont often take the rider for the exact same reason. I suppose it depends on local meta. I tend to play a lot of dreamer, kirai, and collette. Crews that can make cover pointless turn joss in to a a scrap counter so fast

So wish his FF would last until next activation. When I put it up they just wait till next turn before he has gone to smash him.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys.

Take suggestions about LSA-think he will work nicely with his 50mm base. Can also see the potential of the SS miner(with healing flip thanks to Ramos-particularly when he a's up).

@Bigglesworth- totally get your point abut 25ss with totem and avatar-what do you think of the 30ss list above?

I think my purchases will consist of avatar, ss miner, extra base of arachnids, toolkit, 2 LSA and probably Joss (there is a game in the future when he will go all 'injun and take apart a crew by himself- imagine him reactivating and laying the whoopass on a master, perhaps hard-to-kill seamus- would be awesome!

For now, however,here are 2 lists for me to try:

Ramos

Avatar 2ss

ToolKit 3ss

Lazarus 9ss

2 LSA 10ss

+3 To my Cache

Mechanical Rider

Ramos

Avatar 2ss

ToolKit 3ss

2 LSA 10ss

Soulstone Miner 6ss

Mechanical Rider and Soulstone Miner OR

Lazarus and LSA

Again thanks to all for their time and advice....

I don't really see avatar and totem as worthwhile even at 30 or 35. I know its a scrap but just don't see the need. The effigy can be a good sub, but at loss of ss miner. Rarely in my games have I felt that turn 2 I need to manifest to justify a totem, turn 3 should work just fine.

Plus without totem I can still pull off turn 3 1 AP manifest. Rusty's reactivate ability making this money.

[Writer@Large]

Well, I had a bad Ramos experience last night. Got my butt handed to me by an Ophilia Gremlin list. It was only my second game, but still, the loss stung. Their ability to buy extra actions and do double damage is ree-donk-ulous.

I need a 25ss Ramos list ... I'm having trouble. Ramos feels like he needs 35ss at least ...

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

He runs fine at 25 and 35. He just struggles with certain strategies. Dmg output is not the concern. The concern is what is the strategy you are playing and playing against? That should have the biggest impact on how you build a Ramos crew.

Blasts agaisnt gremlins is key. Take Kaeris and gunsmiths, both can blast multiple targets.

[Writer@Large]

I think part of my problem is training myself to think outside of the boxset. I brought a Spider Swarm last night, and even though I regretted it, I just felt like it ... had to be there. You know?

Gotta think more metafaction. Like Warmachine.

[M_Ruckuss]

Ok, so having based most of my crew (avatar arrived today, rider and 2nd LSA still to come) I would like to play a 25ss game this thursday...several questions in addition to potential list (obviously scheme dependent, but just getting used to Ramos....)

1) Toolkit worth taking, avatar not?

2) Take x2 spiders, or just 1 and take 2 turns to get the swarm?

3) Can lazarus assimilate the following:

construct spider

combat mechanic

perfect machine

magical extension

4) Is it a case of keeping ramos well out of the way while electrical creation, spiders and other minions take the fight to the enemy, then he join in later with electrical fire?

Ramos- Cache -6ss

Toolkit 3ss

Spider-3ss

Spider-3ss

Large Spider- 5ss

Large Spider-5ss

Avatar-2ss

Ramos-4ss

Toolkit-3

Joss- 9ss

Large Spider-5

Spider-3

Spider-3

Ramos-4ss

Toolkit-3

Spider-3

Spider-3

Mechanical Rider-8ss

Soulstone Miner-6ss

Any of these lists ok to start with, or does anyone have a better suggestion?

My force currently draws from x3 spiders, x1 LSA, toolkit, ramos, joss, gunsmith, avatar, mechanical rider....

[CrouchingMoose]

As mentioned elsewhere take the avatar and the toolkit...turn the toolkit to scrap before manifesting for a jump on scrap counters

[Ebonstar]

Ramos- Cache -6ss

Toolkit 3ss

Spider-3ss

Spider-3ss

Large Spider- 5ss

Large Spider-5ss

Avatar-2ss

I like this one, but why not trade one LSPA for a SSminer? You'd have the later option to bring in another LSPA in Avatar form, and the SSminer can bring a lot to a crew like this.