List of Puppet Synergies

[Wifstrand]

Hey gang,

I was reading a bit on this forum, and though I don''t play nearly as much Puppet Wars as I would like, I'm still very interested in the game as a whole. Seeing as I don't play lots of PW, I'm not aware of many synergies between Puppets.

With this thread I hope to gather a lot of different synergies (between Master/Pawn(s), Master/Sidekick(s)/Pawn(s), whatever combination we can come up with). Hopefully this little project will help people get into the game (if they have a long break or if they're new). This is essentially like the "Tactica" threads known from other game systems like Warhammer, Warmachine/Hordes and so on.

I will summarize all the replies in this thread and put them in this opening post for ease of reference for anyone reading this thread.

I'm thinking we should use a sort of standardized template and fill it out with the details of the synergies/combos you use/theorize. I propose:

Puppet(s)

This can be simply between the two Puppets you've found a combo between, or a whole Toybox working excellently together.

Combo

What your combo/synergy actually does (in theory)

In Practice

How you actually perform the combo/synergy in practice in game. Ie which order you animate the individual Puppets, which abilities you need to trigger in what order et cetera.

Experience

This means how much experience you yourself have with this combo. If several players use/have used this combo we will know it is a good one, if only one player has used it once by chance we will need to playtest it more.

Score

I will fill this out. A score of 1 means it needs playtesting (it may simply be theory), a score of 2 means it is not just theory but has had some playtesting, a score of 3 means it has been thoroughly tested and you can trust it to do what you expect (provided you Flip the right cards and the situation is right, naturally)

Summary of PostYou fill out the following template...

Puppets

Combo

In Practice

Experience

... And I will summarize it. I hope this will create a lively debate in this thread; if someone posts a combo that in theory works wonderfully but some of you have tried in practice and decided doesn't work, I will of course take this into account.

I cannot do this without you! So if you want to do this I will put the necessary amount of work into it, but if you think it is silly and doesn't belong with Puppet Wars that is fine too, that would mean more painting time for my little ones!

Kind regards,

Steffen

[Ratty]

I currently very fond of this list.

http://www.puppet-wars.com/puppet.html?Mas=2&Sz=8&Toys=10,26,37,11,28,38,29,29

Basically it's designed to control the position of models on the board. I've had a few games where I've Stuck the opponents Master and then dragged it all the way into my deployment zone. The Hooded Rider is there to give hitting power, generally you keep it back and feed it key models. The piglet and hog whisperer are in there as the list has a lot of high activation models, Bad Juju, Mature Nephelim and Hooded Rider. The Sorrows allow you to lock down models long enough for you to deal with them. You can throw models into the middle of them and end up with them have +4 to their activation.

[ThePandaDirector]

Purely for debate, I would likely counter Ratty's list with:

http://www.puppet-wars.com/puppet.html?Mas=3&Sz=8&Toys=9,30,31,12,32,21,27,41

Basically I'd attach Bete's Extra Thread early on, making you reliant on Piglet to animate your high AC puppets, then use Silurid+Roar!, Ice Golem's Ice Blaster and anything else opportunity presents to kill you Whisperer and Piglet. As for Sorrows, I would send Moleman and Acolyte, both quite cheap. To kill your tougher puppets I'd send Teddy with Mouldy Stuffing to Swallow Whole, could always use Ice Golem's upgrade (attached to Acolyte so I can use a Box of Snow+Frozen Solid combo later) to paralyze them first (if I haven't yet dealt with Piglet/Whisperer). Joss of course is a tough cookie and though I'd be forced to keep him away from Sorrows, his Sparkling Axes could help take down Kade (who'd have to Rg 2 to use Tantrum anyway). Marcus too has some quite good actions that could be used to shut down parts of your machine.

Problem is range, you'll likely keep you Piglet/Whisperer well out of harms way, plus Kade can always Tantrum then move away. Supposing you'd be quite aggresive with the Sorrows (no point keeping them hidden), I'd hope to tackle them while making it hard for you to animate anything with Extra Thread. Ultimately Kade would be the biggest threat, but i've got plenty of auto-damage to put that baby to lullaby land.

[Ratty]

TBH, Extra thread is expensive, a rip every time you use it and it can only be on your Master. I personally can live with that, Marcus with a rip or two is much less of a problem, and you have to kill Bete to get it which means your down a Sidekick, and your Master is down Rips, to be honest I count that as a score all round. Also Extra thread has no effect at all on the Hooded Rider.

The toybox is also hugely reliant on :tomess, Swallow Whole, Sparkling Axes, Ice Blaster and all of Marcus' abilities need them. This is going to cause you issues.

[ThePandaDirector]

Ah, my fault (forgot the rip in Extra Thread's cost and HR's Can't Hear You).

It's a pretty solid list, though it does rely on slowing the enemy down to make up for your own slow animation mechanic, but Bad Juju is great for holding the enemy in one place (least long enough for Sorrows to seal the deal). Main problem is that your animation is slow because you need to animate the Piglet and then animate the Whisperer to get it back, plus you're only getting 3/4 free animations.

With little experience against Pandora, I've been trying to come up with ways for Marcus to deal with her. Came up with this:

http://www.puppet-wars.com/puppet.html?Mas=3&Sz=8&Toys=30,31,12,32,7,38,33,34

Piglet and Ronin could always take an early workbench. Nino would take Piglet's upgrade and do hit and run attacks. Ice Golem can supply an Ice Blast when needed, but would likely end up on a suicidal charge (if lucky could harm/finish off both Sorrows). December Acolyte and Ronin can supply cards when I need them. Rattler is immune to Stuck, and can Taze to wrestle some control from you (likely cause a rip on it through Everyone Share). When Acolyte is gone, Rattler can use a Taze/Frozen Solid combo, or if IG is dead, a puppet can use Box of Snow/Frozen Solid, to auto kill. Joss/Nino will take Moleman's upgrade to use IM for protection (keeping clear of BJ).

I have had a lot of luck with tome heavy lists, usually get off what I need fine (it's masks I have trouble with, which makes me worry about 'Dora). Problem with this list is that a lot of the tactics rely on puppet's equiping upgrades, meaning it'd be outnumbered early. I think Nino is the best option for supplying hit and run attacks, and a fair use of paralyze, auto-damage and even auto kill should be able to counter the threat of HR, BJ and MN. The game would likely end up a waltz as we try and tie each other down,

[Ratty]

I find I don't need the piglet a lot. But it's useful if you get a bad hand.. The trick is to push forward fast take a bench in the opponent half and then use your BYOB to bring it back to your start line. This normally gives you 3 benches that are easy to hold. with 3 benches you have 7 cards a turn and your likely to get at least 1 10+ naturally in your activation, as well as making your life easier as the opponent is starved a bit of cards.

This is the other reason I love the Piglet / Hog Whisperer combo... Piglets have sprint and the Hogwhisperer can refresh it. So you can effectively take a Workbench 6 spaces away from your starting workbench turn 1, which you can then steal with BYOB..

Edited November 30, 2011 by Ratty

[ThePandaDirector]

Fair enough.

My problem with Marcus is that the majority of the upgrades I want don't come from tome puppets. It's why I prefer him at larger sized games where their affinity with upgrades comes in more.

I think Moleman might take over Acolyte in most of my Shoebox games. The game is generally too small for Acolyte to get much use out of Delicious Stuffing, while Hunting in circumstantial. Moleman on the other hand is great on IM, has Cover Up as a nice free action and has an upgrade that gives Joss a cheeky trick. Since a lot of workbenches tend to naturally be set up adjacent to IMs, as long as your opponent hasn't got too much range then you can bring them to you (Pop Gun and Rad Sword are probably my favorites with him).

I'm gutted neither Hoffman or Ramos weren't voted for the next wave, I just know they would have shown Metal puppets some love.

One combo I'd like to try is Marcus, Lucius, 2/3 Guild Hounds and Guild Austringer. AC2 for a puppet that can attack twice in an activation phase, but risky considering it's only decent adjacent to Marcus.

[Justin]

The piglet's abilities primarily help high cost out of suit puppets function. So, let's say you decided you really needed a mature nephilim for Marcus. Virtually impossible to animate at 10mask.

But run a piglet, bring it out, and sac it to animate the mature nephilim. Then attach its upgrade to the nephilim and that pesky mask is gone.

[ThePandaDirector]

Using a piglet with Lucius really helps to add some rams puppets to your list without paying the price -so you get Lucius at AC9, Guild Austringer for AC4 and Guild Hound for only AC2. It's great with Marcus, because he can use Hounds well and while using the rams he is saving to get a Witchling Stalker to get a great healing combo going (Everyone Share, Leader-ish, Meal Time and Trust Me I'm a "Doctor"). Plus with say 3 Hounds with 2 out at one time you get 4 animations worth of attacks (at Cb4 adjacent to Marcus) for the cost of two 2+ cards - cheap and nasty indeed.

[Wifstrand]

Gentlemen, let's instead keep the combos coming!

[Tauwolf]

This is a really great discussion. I can't wait to try some of these combos. I admit I have been having a hard time figuring out how to make guild hounds really click.

[mistercactus]

Frankly off topic, but important nonetheless:

Panda Director: How on Earth did you get hold of a Lucius?

[ThePandaDirector]

@mistercatus: I don't own him, but since his rules are on the PW website, it's easy enough to proxy him =]

My example is a great combo for Guild Hounds.

They are great for putting out a reliable barrage of attacks, and when they tear apart an opponent they sew each other up. Lucius too, heals when he tears opponents apart, then there's Withcling Stalker. Problem is, Guild Hounds only have 2 stitches and so are easy to kill in one animation phase. On one hand you could field a Rattler or two with Marcus and use them to Taze any puppet that you don't like, plus if a GH does die, it's upgrade allows Rattler or whoever else to get a free attack too. By having Ice Golem, Joss and any other muscle (preferably with a range attack) on the flanks, you can keep the focus off your GH. Hopefully, if you can keep the enemy from killing them in one turn you can use Austringer to deal even more damge.

Will try this out when I get the chance, but it seems Lucius is the key to getting a really cheap and nasty Guild Hound combo outside of a Justice crewbox (since she already ignores the rams).

Edited December 1, 2011 by ThePandaDirector

[Tauwolf]

My example is a great combo for Guild Hounds.

....

Will try this out when I get the chance, but it seems Lucius is the key to getting a really cheap and nasty Guild Hound combo outside of a Justice crewbox (since she already ignores the rams).

Until you play against an opposing Marcus and he uses your own Guild Hounds to Roar with, decimating your tightly-packed group.....

That's the problem with devoting half your list to a one-trick pony, no matter how sweet it is. I love the balance of this game. Wyrd really did a great job.

[ThePandaDirector]

Until you play against an opposing Marcus and he uses your own Guild Hounds to Roar with, decimating your tightly-packed group.....

Well that's why you don't take too many stuffed animals against another Marcus player (which I've yet to do have the pleasure of), but then he would have that same problem (ICE GOLEM'S FOR EVERYONE!)

But yeah, it's not a tournament list for sure, but then I don't really do tournaments... but a PW one would be tempting, if there ever was one in the UK.

That's the problem with devoting half your list to a one-trick pony, no matter how sweet it is. I love the balance of this game. Wyrd really did a great job.

They surely did, and while a balanced list might get smashed by some, you know they will have just as much trouble aginst other lists - there's no one list to rule them all (though Viktoria and Pandora are certainly going for gold).

As mentioned before, a great combo is Tazed/Frozen Solid or Box of Snow/Frozen Solid, both do auto kill for a handfull of tomes, just remember that Frozen Solid is one use only, but when used on the opponents Master it doesn't matter.

Edit: Has anyone tried the Gremlin gunline. With Viktoria they're only AC5, AC-1 and Cb+1 for each adjacent Gremlin so you''ve got an AC 3, Cb3 "captain" flanked by two AC4, Cb2 troopers. I came accross it the hard way during playtesting, blew me apart. Considering with a 7 they can attack Rg2 and possibly do 2rips each per animation. Give the middle one Guild Hound's upgrade and he can attack twice per animation phase, meaning you're getting a potential output of 6 rips at Rg2 + 2 rips at Rg1, for three 5+ and 7+ cards.One thing to keep in mind is use the Rg1 Bite the Hand free attack, before animating the middle Gremlin so when you do, you can move him back and attack at Rg2. If you wanna play defencively put them in a triangle and they're all AC3, CB3.

Edited December 1, 2011 by ThePandaDirector

[Tauwolf]

I was thinking about trying a gremlin based list. I think it could work pretty well.

[Tauwolf]

I understand the implied synergy with the frozen solid combos, but does anyone else think that - in practice - they're a bit clunky and really not all that useful?

[Ratty]

I think Moleman might take over Acolyte in most of my Shoebox games. The game is generally too small for Acolyte to get much use out of Delicious Stuffing, while Hunting in circumstantial.

I would disagree with this, Hunting is always useful as it allows you to search for those tomes you need. I generally get it out early, run it forward and fire off hunting each turn, and use it to block lines of attack as I don't care whether it dies. Hopefully by the time Pokey Vik comes hunting Marcus he's sitting there with an Ice Cube for instant Vik death. But strangely as you don't care whether the Kitty lives or dies she seems to become god like. I've had quite a few games where she is the model that does the final blow on their Master due to her being in the right position.

I understand the implied synergy with the frozen solid combos, but does anyone else think that - in practice - they're a bit clunky and really not all that useful?

Not really, I don't go out for the frozen solid kill but having it in my arsenal means that my Master gets a layer of protection that he wouldn't have otherwise. The opponent can't just run at him willy nilly as he can insta-kill them.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Ratty

[ThePandaDirector]

I've had mixed results with Acolyte, but he's cheap enough for me to keep, but then what's Puppet Wars if you don't experiment =]

Agree, Frozen Solid is not a done deal (certainly shouldn't hinge your entire strategy around it), but it's threat is useful and the puppet's that provide it are core to most Marcus toyboxes anyway.

[strangefellow]

I have had a lot of success with the following lately

(only the puppets required for the specific synergy are mentioned)

Master: Lady J

Pawns: Executioner, Austringer, Bad Juju/ronins

The basic premise is that Lady J tears apart the executioner for his upgrade, which is then attatched to the austringer (that gives him +1 powerful +1 combat) Lady J, at some point, casts elite combat training on the austringer (now at +2 powerful +4 combat)

The austringer is now a board wide threat, nearly any puppet ending in contact with your puppets can theoretically be instant-killed. I have found bad juju especially good for this tactic, defensively, as he is pretty hard to take out.

On the other hand ronins with their sprint ability can make assassination runs on enemy masters who are exhausted. (its a win-win situation against exhausted masters, either he gets attacked, or at least the opponent will rip him, to get away from the ronins, and the threat of the austringer)

[Tauwolf]

Yep, that's pretty sweet..... Having almost no experience playing Lady J (she's the master we usually give to noobs), I haven't had a chance to really see her full potential. That's a pretty sick combo.

[Hugor]

Strangefellow,

That is a good strategy, especially with using bad juju for board control and luring in enemy puppets. I do something similar with the austringer, but instead use the guild hound's upgrade, which gives him "wicked set of choppers" which is a :fast action, bite the hand (0) make an Attack, this may not be used during the puppet's animation and Combat +1. So my combat+2 Austringer who is then hopefully given elite combat training, can do two rips at combat5 from across the board for the remaining turns that round, without worrying about exhaustion.

[Doctor Lucky]

Strangefellow,

That is a good strategy, especially with using bad juju for board control and luring in enemy puppets. I do something similar with the austringer, but instead use the guild hound's upgrade, which gives him "wicked set of choppers" which is a :fast action, bite the hand (0) make an Attack, this may not be used during the puppet's animation and Combat +1. So my combat+2 Austringer who is then hopefully given elite combat training, can do two rips at combat5 from across the board for the remaining turns that round, without worrying about exhaustion.

Oh That's evil. That's really evil. Well played.

[strangefellow]

Thats a nice one too. Bite the hand is a very cool action.

I have also had some ok games with a guildhound upgraded with "glowy claws" backed up by witchling stalker. It gives the little pup a bit of killing and staying power.