Mr. Bigglesworth Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Help me out here, what is so good about these guys? I want to start including kaeris in my Ramos crew. And want to know if these guys are worth it. They just seem so fragile and not fast enough to be a threat. They don't seem worth it for 4ss. I want to know how to use them. The best strategy seems to throw them in the fray and then POP them. If your opponent doesnt bunch up well your out of luck. And if I see one of these guys on the board I would spread out enough to avoid them. Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Madman Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 when they shoot, the oponent gets a fire token when they melee hit, the oponent gets a fire token when they get hit in melee, the oponent gets a fire token when they burst, the oponent gets a fire token when they burst they cause WOUNDS, not damage Keris' spells require opponents to have tokens an unused token causes a wound or slow effect Keris can force them to explode, Raspy cannot do that to Ice Gamien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think they're situational to the opponent too. If the enemy has lots of ranged, they seem like they could be a liability to your army. My friend has tried a number of times to attempt to utilize them vs me (I play belle centric ressers) and they're very lackluster as I can tend to take the hit from the token or the explosion and not worry to much, meanwhile hes losing models. I can see them very good vs neverborn who can be tricky to hit, and not be terribly beefy in the wounds department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 when they shoot, the oponent gets a fire token when they melee hit, the oponent gets a fire token when they get hit in melee, the oponent gets a fire token when they burst, the oponent gets a fire token when they burst they cause WOUNDS, not damage Keris' spells require opponents to have tokens an unused token causes a wound or slow effect Keris can force them to explode, Raspy cannot do that to Ice Gamien I can read. When they burst it is dmg not wd but that is a minor detail since most models will take 2 wd. Also Raspy can cause her gamins to burst with 1 ap, hit them with her spell which is a common tactic. I understand iggy can't give burning tokens from range but iggy can move and do a larger aura to give more models burning tokens. Her cost for this seems questionable but I will try her. I can see fritz's comments are relevant. Against a ranged crew they can be dealt with pretty easy, def 4, walk 4, gun rng 8 and wd 4 is not much. As a player who has played every faction except outcast, I always have a ranged option or two in each crew to avoid burst deaths like this. It seems if that had one more wound, walk 5 or slow to die I could see a usage to them. Right now I am struggling to see how taking less than 3 would work. It is easy to POP them with two hits wd 5 and their armor would give them a chance at taking 3. It seems like their best def is they are height 1. Also for most strategies I want my minions who are significant to live long enough to complete strategy and schemes. In kill scenarios they seem like a decent choice, in interact scenarios they seem like a liability. Also spiders being pumped out can make it to an opponent and be overheated by kaeris. Also spiders are expendable. This only works with Ramos who i plan to mainly use with kaeris. If kaeris is solo I still have a hard time wanting to use fire gamins. If I'm missing something I want to know I really like the models and want to use them. One kind of crew selections do you run them in? How many do you take? Are there strategy and schemes that make them auto includes and strategy and schemes you don't want to take them in? I don't mean for this to be a thread to rip on them, but this a model I just can't seem to find a good usage for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 They seem to be a specialist to me. Only truly useful when you need to kick out the burning counters, say in a 'Slaughter' strategy. I could also see them useful in a defensive role, like in the 'Hold Out' scheme. Hide them until the enemy gets close enough to utilize them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted November 23, 2011 Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Dey is a bit poop IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bigglesworth Posted November 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2011 Not bad idea on hold out scheme. I have used that with the executioner though he was harder to hide. So it seems they are more of a specialist minions rather than general usage. That was what I guessed. I know I will field them but it won't be often. It just feels like these guys were powered down like henchman/master comparison. I was thinking about having them with rusty Alice and they would be a good candidate for reactivate to get them lodged into the fray. Not investing rusty Alice for them rusty has plenty of utility with Ramos as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Not bad idea on hold out scheme. I have used that with the executioner though he was harder to hide. So it seems they are more of a specialist minions rather than general usage. That was what I guessed. I know I will field them but it won't be often. It just feels like these guys were powered down like henchman/master comparison. I was thinking about having them with rusty Alice and they would be a good candidate for reactivate to get them lodged into the fray. Not investing rusty Alice for them rusty has plenty of utility with Ramos as it is. this is a niche I was thinking about aswell, but who would you take them with? seems ramos is better suited too his spiders, and Im really unsure about Leveticus overall, but it seems like alot of the beatsticking is done himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelle341 Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 They seem to be a specialist to me. Only truly useful when you need to kick out the burning counters, say in a 'Slaughter' strategy. I could also see them useful in a defensive role, like in the 'Hold Out' scheme. Hide them until the enemy gets close enough to utilize them. I completely agree as an active Kearis player I use them more to hold corners and keep modles busy they may not be able to kill to much but they dish out burning tokens like crazy and the mor people got the better in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Honestly I have taken up using Kaeris exclusively... I have found that as a support master and the ability to take a student, that fast action makes her, and allows her to jump out give out burning counters, cast a spell and jump back to safety and the student. But by herself she needs a way do distribute a burning counter on the target model, otherwise she does potentially leave herself exposed somewhat. Fire gamin are OK at this but usually die doing so... which can be situational, especially when her crew is limited in number enough. I ran one in once hot and killed it with my own gunsmith giving out burning counters which left Kaeris to cast accelerant and immolate to her hearts content after messing about with Iggy, his ability to move towards the model it incites and able to pop out a cheeky free shooting attack before he can potentially incite his way into combat and flurry on a tough model to distribute burning counters... Down side is Iggy is 7ss where 2 gamin are 8ss... and Iggy does only have df6 and 6 wounds. But I do prefer to use Iggy over the gamin, for the use of incite and a greater movement Edited November 24, 2011 by Stern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Honestly I have taken up using Kaeris exclusively... I have found that as a support master and the ability to take a student, that fast action makes her, and allows her to jump out give out burning counters, cast a spell and jump back to safety and the student. But by herself she needs a way do distribute a burning counter on the target model, otherwise she does potentially leave herself exposed somewhat. Fire gamin are OK at this but usually die doing so... which can be situational, especially when her crew is limited in number enough. I ran one in once hot and killed it with my own gunsmith giving out burning counters which left Kaeris to cast accelerant and immolate to her hearts content after messing about with Iggy, his ability to move towards the model it incites and able to pop out a cheeky free shooting attack before he can potentially incite his way into combat and flurry on a tough model to distribute burning counters... Down side is Iggy is 7ss where 2 gamin are 8ss... and Iggy does only have df6 and 6 wounds. But I do prefer to use Iggy over the gamin, for the use of incite and a greater movement but... she cant take the student Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 If she is not running as The master of the crew she can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 she is only limited when leading a crew.. when hired as a minion by say Ramos she can take anything, from a student, to an essence of power (the two are great with her) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 I find them to be one of the best anti NB units in the game. NB have few ranged options so they play well.c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz the cat Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 If she is not running as The master of the crew she can. running her with another master I'd say its even less important to have gamin then as you're more tailoring the force to the strengths of the master and just using her to blow stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 running her with another master I'd say its even less important to have gamin then as you're more tailoring the force to the strengths of the master and just using her to blow stuff up. exactly just take a student, load up on ss and your away, she just gets a lil' tricky by hersef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 running her with another master I'd say its even less important to have gamin then as you're more tailoring the force to the strengths of the master and just using her to blow stuff up. I would partly disagree with that.. with Ramos she becomes your objective taker and main line blaster and he is support to her. Not to mention that they are constructs anyway so he can Linked In on them, Controlled Detonate them and heal them. Same as Zoraida and Von Schill, Zoraida quickly becomes Von Schill support, saying that you don't really tailor to him, you just have him with good Neverborn troops. I know with Zoraida/Collodi, it's definitely a Collodi force with Zoraida in support again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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