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Is Lilith worth playing without Nephelim?


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I play about 10 masters now including Zoraida and Collodi. and told myself I would not pick up any Nephelim. I really don't want to pick up all the Nephelim, but I like the way Lilith can drop a forest, move guys, and was tempted on the Forest guys (starts with Z).

Given the fact I have the following, would you say its a decent force. I know I give up all her (0)s, but the rest of her is still good.

  • Collodi
  • Stitched
  • Wicked dolls
  • Doppelganger
  • Copelious
  • Teddy
  • Baby Cade

I find as a gamer is hard to not want to collect them. So I have to ban certain things. So far I've banned the following

  • Guild (if a merc comes out, maybe)
  • Arcanist beasts - Got miranda and raptor for mega-totem
  • Ressurectionist spirits
  • Outcase hamelin (master) & Leveticus
  • Outcast used with Som'er.
  • LCB if I can't get Nightmare - The question is do I stay up until midnight this Thursday for him.

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Don't have her card or book ATM as at work but the main problem I see is bar maybe teddy nothing lasts to long if it gets shot at, and they are all hard to keep alive. But if it's just her 0 actions that are purely nephilim based, for the sake of a £5 model give it a try and see, you will still get to make your forests and have fun doing what you wanted which is the aim?:)

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Transposition is a Resist WP, so you can't swap Teddy around. (Same as Obey)

Honestly, as we talked about last week, you really should get a Mature Nephilim for Zoraida anyways, and now if you are thinking about Lilith, you might as well just pick up her box, 1 or 2 Young and you'll be set. For what you want, you can skip things like the Black Blood Shaman and Nekima, but the Tots, Young and Mature are invaluable.

Also, the Waldgeists (Forest Guys) are great with Lilith, and you mentioned wanting them for Z.

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Beyond Lilith's (0) Brood mother and drain blood, she has very little other direct synergy with Nephelims.

Her other spells and action synergies work with almost anything.

Illusionary forest to block LOS, hide your own models or slow the enemy down.

Transposition to move models away, closer to or exchange with one of your own.

Earthquake to attempt to move any model in a nominated direction within a 12" pulse centered on her, 2".

Alluring is more of a personal defensive spell.

Just keep in mind that Lilith is quick. She has fast in built and has a 6" walk. It is easy to over extend with her and leave her stranded. Taking slow beat sticks with her is not always a good idea. Not impossible to work with, but it does require you be more thoughtful.

Example: The teddy example is correct in that you cannot transpose him, but then you can always swap the enemy model with one of your own that is near him and have teddy go wild when he activates!. Its swap any 2 model within 12" of Lilith including herself. With her Mistress of Malifaux "I see everything and anything" it becomes very difficult for the opposition to stop this from happening short of resisting it or staying away.

The one thing I've noticed when I play Lilith is that I often get out activated if I buy to many expensive SS costing models. The Tots always end up in every list I have because I need them for the activation. It also helps that they are significant and are not shabby for their cost. You can substitute the tots with somethin similar and you're golden.

I'm actually trying Lilith without her nephelim now, just for fun. She's not crippled if you don't take them along.

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The only Nephilim I own besides Lilith herself are the twins, and she works just fine. Doppelganger is great with her to copy her walk and Def to grab objectives or tie peeps up, or Fast and Greatsword to get stuck in. Primordial Magic + Rush of Magic = win (draw 8 cards and discard one crappy one). Convict Gunslingers and hiding behind Creepy Fog work a charm as well.

If you're hung up on losing her (0)s, just use Black Blood Shaman so you can do something with them.

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I've run Lillith many times now and inlcuding some games with no other nephilim in the crew. And she works perfectly fine w/o them to be honest. The key is to keep her with other quick models. So Lillith plus stitched = no so good, the stitched quickly get out paced and left behind. But Lillith plus waldgeist, siliurids, baby kade (he really benefits from being slingshotted into place with transposition with his melee expert plus high damage potential)

If you want to look out of faction (unless "Hot chicks with swords" is the faction you are playing) the Ronin mesh very smoothly with lilliths attack and speed styles.

As an example of all i've mentioned above here is a 35 ss list that I would feel is a solid "all-comers" style list, multiple significant models with very fast movement combined with multiple models capable of dealing out some significant ammounts of damage for scenarios about killing the enemy. Lastly it keeps you above a 5 SS pool so you can use the Ronin's "Always for hire" ability to summon a Ronin mid-game if the need arises.


Baby Kade - 6

Ronin - 6

Ronin - 6

Silurid - 5

Silurid - 5

Silurid - 5

Ronin and/or Silurid could be swapped out for Waldgeists if you wanted a more defensive model that retained that fast movement stat.

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Its swap any 2 model within 12" of Lilith including herself.

This is no longer legal. Her totem can cast transposition on her, but she can no longer cast it on herself. : (

Is there a specific reason why you don't want any nephilim? Honestly, the nephilim fit her playstyle very well. The choices which follow assume you are not taking any nephilim, as they would probably be better.

Sillurids can keep up with her fine, but are really squishy. They are also usually a 15 point investment, but if there is a lot of water on the board they are golden.

Waldgeists are tough and quick, and do really well if there are a lot of trees on the board. They have direct synergy with Lillith due to "imaginary forest".

Bad Juju could work with her with his ability to be placed anywhere on the board.

Using Lillith with slower minions such as teddy will work but only if you adjust your playstyle and hold Lillith back some.

Edited by micahwc
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