The Double-Teddy-Dreamer: any experiences?

[Zwergenkrieger]

Hi all,

I like to further increase my Neverborn collection and therefore I thought about using the Dreamer with 2 Teddies. Now I want to know if anyone outside likes to share his experiences with a double Teddy Dreamer list or is at least able to give some advice.

I know that the alp bomb has been the most frightening combo for some months now, but I wonder if there is the chance to run the double Teddy list to some success.

ZK

[karn987]

Im sorry that I dont have much time to go into real detail, but yes it works. It works very well once you get used to having so few models. Teddy's hit like trucks and are well known to kill Masters in a single round given the chance. Very little can survive a turn against one of these Fluffy Monsters and the Dreamer's ability to deliver them to almost any point on the field is a big part of this. Once there they are rather durable if easy to hit, so you can't expect them to really survive long when surounded. Hard to Wound and Regen will help them survive, but that Low Df will get you killed if your up against the wrong thing.

If your looking for "competitive" then you need to ask yourself what your looking for really? Are you looking to be a min/maxer or are you looking to maximize the effect what you want to play or are you looking for some middle ground? Can you win a good number of games with 2 Teddys? Absolutely yes. Are they the most tooled list you can bring? No, but then again do you really want to play that? The question always comes down to what YOU want to play. If you want to play 2 Teddys, great! I'm more then happy to help you out rather then trying to turn you to using something else.

The biggest draw back is their cost, 9ss each leaves you with few models to do anything else. But that said, you can absolutely win games with this kind of list. One of my Favorite Dreamer lists is actually 2 Teddys, Coppelius, Daydreams, and the Dreamer. It takes some getting used to for having so few models on the table and in certain strategies your going to have a hard time. So it's certainly not an all comer or situation list.... but its a ton of fun

The key thing is getting used to when and where to drop your Teddys and how to position Coppelius to best cover them. His Slumber trigger that grants Paralyze is what will keep them alive besides their own offensive power. His ability to make Alps can help give you more models later in the game to help make up for a loss of a Teddy and provide you with some help in the form of their passive effects. If nothing else they will get in the way and hopefully toss around some Slow.

All this punch also lets you risk LCB less and allows you to use him for either clean up, or to make the initial mess. But just be very careful of that low Df... Models like Piere Ravage will annihilate your Teddys before you even realized what happened and triggers like Headshot really make you feel the pain as the loss of even 1 Teddy seriously hurts.

Mixing it up by adding some more low cost Nightmares in like Stitched Together can help off set this. They are rather durable (with Does Not Die and their high Wd total) and can really put out some high damage with Gamble your Life. They also give you another method of attacking your opponent by going against their Wp rather then Df (from the Teddy's attacks) so that helps to get around a lot of stuff. Lady J's Reposte is useless against Gamble Your Life for example

Check out the link to my Tactica in my signature, its a bit dated now but the section on Teddy should give you a good idea of how to work this out and hopefully some good advice. Otherwise if you have any specific quesitons, please ask them!

Edited October 11, 2011 by karn987

[Fetid Strumpet]

I think it would be fun, I'm not sure how competitive it would be. Teddy is expensive and doesn't have Melee expert, sure he has flurry, but that costs you a card to activate, and ties all your activation up in attacking one model for the turn, so if you kill them on the first or second attack you've wasted your card.

Hard to Wound 2 is also a double edged sword. Sure it will often mean weak dmg, but it also means that you will see the red joker come up quite often which will possibly kill your H2W models in one shot. I see it happen at least once per game I play with my ressers, and it was responsible for Datsue-ba one shotting Teddy before as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Teddy model, and think that he is solid, I just have trouble seeing ever taking more than one, and with the current crop of minions, I really think you'd be better spending his points on other models. For 3 extra SS than 2 Teddies you could have 2 Lelu and 1 Lilitu, and Lelu as a melee minion puts Teddy to shame.

Depends on what you need, however.

[Calmdown]

There's pretty much no reason to run Teddy over Lelu as your damage output.

[karn987]

There's pretty much no reason to run Teddy over Lelu as your damage output.

Off topic. Please try to stick to the topic at hand. The question is not about Lelu or what would be better, it is about running 2 Teddys and how well they work.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Depends, If you need to hold a location with a model I'd probably do it with Teddy instead of Lelu. Teddy is a tiny bit more survivable than a Lelu/Lilitu combo, but his survivability is up front, while Lelu's can take a moment to kick in. If you might get swarmed I think Teddy is the way to go. But it is situational.

[Calmdown]

Off topic. Please try to stick to the topic at hand. The question is not about Lelu or what would be better, it is about running 2 Teddys and how well they work.

Seriously dude, your attempts to police the content of forum topics are wearing.

The guy asked for advice on Teddies.

My reply is that it's not a good idea.

That's all.

@Fetid

Defense by removing your opponent's ability to contest an area is almost always better than defense via 'tanking damage', though. Especially given that many positional/model based victory conditions (reconnoiter, holdout, breakthrough, etc) are not about model proximity but rather number of models, in which case you need that offensive and/or chasing power to get your vp. Many models can just run away from a pair of Teddies, it's much harder to do that from a Lelu+Lilitu (and 4 points spare).

Edited October 11, 2011 by Calmdown

[Inquisitor Wall]

Ive had good luck running 2 teddies and stitched togethers in a list. The Teddy delivery with the dreamer is great because it allows you to get them where you want them with out walking. Typically I drop them near my opponent's beat stick and try to remove it before it can swing back at teddy. Typically this works well, except in the last game, executioner hit a red joker on swinging back with a slow to die trigger. Losing one teddy without killing a model, and the second in the next turn really ended the game for me.

So I would have to say it is very tough to sink so many points into 2 teddies, but they are super fun.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I agree it would be fun. I doubt very competitive. For added giggles you could toss in Kade as well since he has some ability with Teddies.

@ Calmdown

I agree killing the opponent is better, but Teddy is a solid melee model and has more up front survivability. Like I said it's situational.

[Mergoth]

If you want a fun themed force of killer toddlers, you could try running Kade. He's not a nightmare or anything, but he can weather a few attacks with Df 7, then teleport a Teddy in to eat face.

Edit: Ninja'd!

[psychocamel]

I played a fun 35 pointer with three teddies >_>

[NBmaster]

I have played the 2 Teddy crew with coppelious and with 2 stitched both games I learned a lot. I really like the idea of the 3 Teddy 35ss crew as i have 2 regular Teddies and a Nightmare Teddy (won 1st place in an achievement league), and I really want to run it against Seamus/aSeamus crew, had the chance but took Zoraida/dopp/twins crew instead and got my hat handed to me. I think the 3 Teddies def stance and any of the Thing of Nightmares bury all Teddies and 1 daydream 1st turn followed with a 2nd turn chomp alpha strike nightmare drop off of 3 Teddies and daydream behind teddies for pick up would be a really cool way to get the drop and 9 attacks on Seamus or any other non alpha striking masters for that matter. I think 3 is better than 2 because with 3 you will most likely loose 2 Teddies while killing their master but the 3rd will likely live (27 wds between the 3 of them) depending on the master you are against and then it/they can be buried and LCB and the teddy/s can spend the rest of the game eating the rest of the models 1 by 1. Kind of a 1 trick Teddy bomb kinda thing but it could work in some situations, although this is prob not the crew to take for reconnoiter or other board control strategies/schemes

Another 2 Teddy crew I have been thinking about for going up against construct heavy crews (Hoffman/ Levi) is

Dreamer/LCB

Teddy x 2

Weaver Widow

Daydreamsx3

Smash a construct with the teddies and have the Weaver make more teddies or she can just stay in the back making counters and then dolls/Teddies. I have read in other threads that the new Teddies created would not count as nightmares so you couldn't bury them which is why it would be more fun to smash something and then make a Teddy right in the thick of the battle. She could also bring a Teddy back if one/both get smashed. This could also help with the strat/scheme problems i mentioned earlier.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Very effective against living crews and crews not immune to morale duels. Against crews immune to morale duels then not so much. They are amazing, and are really not that easy to take down for most crews.