Basic Demo Suggestions?

[Morgan Vening]

OK, I'm gonna try and promote Mailfaux to my local gaming group. I have some experience with the game, and a fair grounding in the rules. But it's nothing compared to the participants here.

I'm looking at running a standard Scrap using 'outdoor' terrain. I can mix that up fairly well, so that's not an issue.

What I'm after, are two relatively balanced lists, in the 25-30pt range, that don't really rely heavily on tricks, especially combination ones. That work mostly on their statlines, and with some fairly obvious tactical options.

I'd also like a relatively balanced Strategy (probably shared?) and a pair of Schemes (that would be announced), for both lists.

The reason I'm asking, is because one of the easiest ways to discourage a game locally, is to give the players too much information, too quickly, or having to coach them through a game (OK, you move the Canine Remains forward, then you Scalpel Sling it with McMourning, yes you can do that. Why would you want to? Because McMourning needs Body Part counters to work best. What are you doing? Why are you leaving? Come back! ).

I love the huge combination of effects and synergies that Malifaux provides, and I'm sure my group will too, but info-glut tends to be the quickest way for that to fall apart. Rigid initial guidelines for the first game, and THEN explaining all the myriad options is the best way to go.

Thanks in advance,

Morgan Vening

[osoi]

Good 'starter' crews and lists that I have demoed with are Seamus (simpple tactic of lure chain then 0.50 Flintlock to the face or into reach of a Sybelle flurry) add in Copycat Killer and Crooked Man (lure into shafted markers) and you have a flexible list that can be played straight forward or a bit more complex as people learn and see interactions.

Lady J box plus her totem plus executioner or Austringer, pretty well does what it says on the box

Von Schill box plus Taelor, the Friekorps work really well and the inclusion of Taelor gives a solid melee beatstick

Lilith box plus totem and young nephilim, fast glass cannons at its most basic but also has tricks

They are the ones I can think of at the moment, feel free to ask more

[osoi]

Favourite intro strats for me are shared claim jump and shared destroy the evidence.

as for scheme announcements a combo of bodyguard and either breakthrough or holdout work well for adding tactical decison for those strategies

[nilus]

Honestly I would throw out strategy and schemes for the first game(or just do slaughter).

Also I would lower the demo crews to the bare minimum. Don't worry about point values so much. Just pick a master and 2 Minions for each side.

Maybe Lady Justice and two Death Marshals vs Seamus and a pair of belles.

Malifaux has a lot to take in and during the first few games players are going to be overwhelmed with cards and triggers and stats as it is. Best to keep the model count really low. Once they get the basics then jump to 25 stones.

[Mr_Smigs]

back when the game came out at first, most of our "demo" games were Justice or Perdita vs McMourning or Rasputina....

[R.J]

The huge amount of abilities each master has tend to be to much for many people, they don´t want to read all the rules on the cards before the first game we thought about printing "starter cards" with less rules.

[Lucidicide]

Whenever I am teaching someone the game, I give them Perdita's crew and I run Seamus. I ignore schemes and just do Shared Slaughter. That way people can focus on activations and the action choices.

Perdita I think is a great starter group because of how hard they can hit and how ranged they are. Most people I know have at least played 40k and are used to ranged combat and/or like ranged a lot. I tell them they can mostly just move forward and shoot to get a feel for the duels, cheating, etc.

As Seamus, I ignore many things that can be done. I'm mostly just swinging or shooting back, with a Lure here or there. Additionally, I will usually ignore Terrifying completely and don't worry about Morale duels.

We almost always do 25ss for the first few games with new people.

[TheOneWhoFell]

In an initial Demo, it's important for the learner to do the different kinds of duels (ranged, melee, spells) and sto see how the turn plays out. I usually do LJ/Judge/DM vs Seamus/Syblle/Belle - I put LJ and Syblle into spell casting range, Judge at a range to shoot the Belle, and the DM in b2b with Seamus... I usually let them run LJ... they're a little more straigt forward...

And try not to kill their stuff... they know you're the better player... they want to have fun... die with grace

[Lucidicide]

Forgetting triggers = best way to hurt yourself without being obvious.

[magicpockets]

The huge amount of abilities each master has tend to be to much for many people, they don´t want to read all the rules on the cards before the first game we thought about printing "starter cards" with less rules.

I dont really like this idea, keep the cards and the rules for balance and as part of the attraction of the game, just manage the process so people don't get overwhelmed (i.e. talk them through it)

[Ebonstar]

I often do a "pre-duel" before the game to walk people through the activation and duel mechanics. Typically it's a Ronin/Convict GS versus a Silent One/Onryo, which allows for examples of ranged/melee/spell duels.

Shared Claim Jump is great for demos because it encourages people to move around a bit, and I've seen more success running 20ss and below crews than full box sets.

[Fetid Strumpet]

I demo by going over basic rules systems "The basic mechanic of his game i the card game War with a couple of bells and whistles". I also usually ignore schemes to begin with and almost always demo with Shared Treasure Hunt as it is such a different mindset from other miniature war games.

I'm planning on future demos involving LJ, Judge, DM vs. Seamus, Sybelle, Belle.

[Dustcrusher]

The huge amount of abilities each master has tend to be to much for many people, they don´t want to read all the rules on the cards before the first game we thought about printing "starter cards" with less rules.

I think I have a project for this weekend

If Wyrd ever releases a deluxe starter set (one crew, one deck, counters, and a Rules Manual), they should include a Quick Start guide and "basic rules" cards with fewer and simplified talents. Blood Bowl's rules, for example, are pretty basic until you get to player skills and the kick-off table.

With the demos I've run I usually let them choose Rasputina, Justice, Perdita, or the Viktorias. Those crews are fairly solid even when their talents aren't being used at their full potential.

I play Nicodem and some Punk Zombies/Necropunks. As a handicap I stick to Arise (to demo corpse counters), Zombie Master (so that Arise isn't seen as completely pointless), Reanimator (risk management and built-in versus additional suits), and Decay (template placement and to ensure he isn't seen as a total pushover).

I've noticed that some folks new to the game equate more abilities/powers/choices with being "better" even though that isn't always true. PZs and Necropunks help disprove this.

[Morgan Vening]

And try not to kill their stuff... they know you're the better player... they want to have fun... die with grace

Ahh, lack of clarity on my part. What I was after, was two gangs for two newbies to play, with me being the umpire/explainer. That avoids the whole being obvious I'm throwing the game dealy. I feel that cheapens things for the opponent.

I often do a "pre-duel" before the game to walk people through the activation and duel mechanics. Typically it's a Ronin/Convict GS versus a Silent One/Onryo, which allows for examples of ranged/melee/spell duels.

Shared Claim Jump is great for demos because it encourages people to move around a bit, and I've seen more success running 20ss and below crews than full box sets.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I think I'll go with the following Lists.

Lady Justice Box + Ronin* + 1SS

Lilith Box + Convict Gunslinger* +1SS

Or should I reverse the Mercs? I figue giving the better shooting to the Lilith is important, but is the Trigger Happy Mask going to be a problem?

Shared Strategy - Claim Jump

Announced Scheme - Bodyguard (LadyJ/Lilith)

Announced Scheme - Kill Protege (Judge/Mature)

Should keep the game a cluster in the middle, and I don't mind that the spellcasting is minimal, I can explain that in the debrief. There's some tricks, but nothing over the top, and the strats/schemes should have them looking at risk/reward.

Also, the gang totals come to 25pts, which I can use as a selling point on how cheap initial entry into the game is.

Morgan Vening

[Hatchethead]

I dont really like this idea, keep the cards and the rules for balance and as part of the attraction of the game, just manage the process so people don't get overwhelmed (i.e. talk them through it)

After briefly discussing basic stats like Wk/Cg, Cb, Ca and Rg, I find it best to (at first) ignore Abilities, Weapons and Triggers and focus on Actions and Spells. Those are the meat, the actions new players can easily relate to without feeling overwhelmed. Once they understand how AP is spent on Actions and Spells and how they can potentially interact with models on the table, I then introduce them to Triggers (during a duel). Abilities and Weapons are often the last thing I discuss, which tends to bring the true "simple complexity" into sharp focus.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Ebonstar]

Or should I reverse the Mercs? I figue giving the better shooting to the Lilith is important, but is the Trigger Happy Mask going to be a problem?

I like the mercs the way you have it just to give each side a "different" feeling model. People I've run demos with find the Convict to be a blast to play whether they like shooting or not and the the two mercs you are using are great for showing how triggers work, since they get them so easily.

Should keep the game a cluster in the middle, and I don't mind that the spellcasting is minimal, I can explain that in the debrief. There's some tricks, but nothing over the top, and the strats/schemes should have them looking at risk/reward.

Yeah this is a great quick and bloody game. When someone expresses interest in a demo, I do a "mini-interview" of about 10-30 seconds where they simply tell me what they like, and this sometimes allows me to make quick modifications to the crews to include an element I think they might enjoy.

For example your setup is fast and brutal which is great for the majority of times, but you might want to keep the odd totem/spellcaster around for folks that are big on spellcasting.

[magicpockets]

After briefly discussing basic stats like Wk/Cg, Cb, Ca and Rg, I find it best to (at first) ignore Abilities, Weapons and Triggers and focus on Actions and Spells. Those are the meat, the actions new players can easily relate to without feeling overwhelmed. Once they understand how AP is spent on Actions and Spells and how they can potentially interact with models on the table, I then introduce them to Triggers (during a duel). Abilities and Weapons are often the last thing I discuss, which tends to bring the true "simple complexity" into sharp focus.

That would work well if you progress through everything in the first game (is that what you mean?)

[Hatchethead]

That would work well if you progress through everything in the first game (is that what you mean?)

Exactly.

[magicpockets]

Cool idea

[Hatchethead]

Cool idea

Thanks. I try.