Some Thoughts after playing Seamus and Kirai...

[edonil]

So, I got in four games on Saturday with Seamus and Kirai. Played against Gremlins, but each time I was playing a different Core Encounter, and trying different things with lists. Some thoughts that I had:

1. Von Schill makes for a nasty bit of work with Kirai. I've always found targeting specific models for elimination with playing Kirai difficult, at least without unnecessarily risking Kirai. Von Schill's clockwork seeker definitely helped with that. I'm actually looking forward more to Sue right now, a couple points cheaper and I think he'll fit my play style a little better.

2. Lots of Belles with Seamus doesn't impress me. And I'm still not impressed with Sybelle, although that might be still some of my apathy about the model bleeding through. Belles are great cannon fodder and their spells are great utility, but they're certainly not going to kill anything. Depending on the Strategy, I can see myself bringing three...but two seems plenty.

3. Shikome are really, really scary...until they get hit. They don't last too long if someone wants to get rid of them. Especially when running them with Seamus.

So, I still really like Resurrectionists...and I think I like Seamus more than Kirai. It's just going to be an interesting thing with both of them, balancing out the damage dealers, objective grabbers, and support models.

[Haystacks]

you pretty much said the weakness of each master right there. they are meant to be there for balance.

3 belles are more than enough for seamus, or 2+sybelle. People will say look to the hanged or the CGS, but id say take a look at a punk and 1/2 crooked's. The punk gives nice damage and the crookeds give some good synergy with the belles and shafted. I prefer to run more of a pimps and hoes list with seamus, haveing each belle paired with a modle that will dish out the hurt and the belle setting it up.

[Buhallin]

I like the Crooked Men for the board control and one of the few options we have for blasts, but as a primary damage dealer with Shafted they're not ideal. More than likely you're going to do 3 Dg to one target, and that is going to take 2 AP to do. That's not impressive even before you consider that it has to work over two activations, and if you're trying to set up something to Lure into the Shaft then you aren't using the Shaft for board control.

I typically run 2 Belles and Sybelle with Seamus. She needs to get into combat to be really effective, but something like Rough Trade + Trail of Fear is really nasty. I use a Hanged too, and add Horrifying on top of it and you basically just paralyzed a model for the entire game.

For damage output I typically vary it based on opponent - Crooked Men, Bete Noir, Hanged, and Punks are my main options. I like the new Doxy, too. I'll run Canines with him sometimes, looking for still more -Wp (Rabies).

I'm surprised you think Shikome are that fragile. They're still Spirits, which means a lot of hits to take them down. The only thing you have to watch out for is getting stuck in combat with something other than your Prey, and she should be fast enough to keep that from happening too often.

[edonil]

I've been playing Kirai enough that people are planning for Spirits...so they're throwing plenty of magic at the Shikome. And, Spirit or not, 7 hits will do the job. I've probably been getting too aggressive with them. (shrugs) We'll see how things go in the future. As I said, this is only after four games. I will say that I think my struggle is that I'm an aggressive player as things go.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Are you starting with it in play or are you slinging it forward with Evolve Spirit. I generally use Shikome to kill the most important opposing model. If she survives past that it's a nice bonus but I don't expect it.

[edonil]

I've messed with both. I actually found her to be most useful with slinging her up using Evolve Spirit, because it catches people off guard.

[Buhallin]

And, Spirit or not, 7 hits will do the job.

Well, yeah... Is there much in the game that 7 hits WON'T get the job done on?

Especially when I summon one, I treat a Shikome as a heat seeking missile - accurate, deadly, and expendable. Between summoning, Nimble, gaining Fast once she's in combat, and an extra shove from Ikiryo or Datsue-ba, I find I rarely have trouble with her making the first strike. I try and make it happen towards the end of the turn, and then with either Swirl her out or just hope for initiative and activate her first (or, again, Swirl her out). Not much out there will survive back-to-back turns from her. If you get her out it's just a bonus.

[Soundwave]

I agree on the "just right amount of belles" as opposed to some peoples "NEED MOAR BELLES" part. Even though they are very lovely beings.

Problem with Seamus, in my experience is to get a proper damage dealer that actually complements his crew. I know there's a lot of options but I've just not settled on the choice.

And yeah, I'd love to use Sybelle more, but she just doesn't cut it most of the time. Need more experimentin' I suppose.

[Ratty]

I agree.. 3 Belles and then the rest either in Hanged/Jack Daw, or something hard hitting like Von Schill, Bete, Killjoy.

[Calmdown]

1. Von Schill makes for a nasty bit of work with Kirai. I've always found targeting specific models for elimination with playing Kirai difficult, at least without unnecessarily risking Kirai. Von Schill's clockwork seeker definitely helped with that. I'm actually looking forward more to Sue right now, a couple points cheaper and I think he'll fit my play style a little better.

Actually with every rezzer master imho. That kind of model is what we're missing.

2. Lots of Belles with Seamus doesn't impress me. And I'm still not impressed with Sybelle, although that might be still some of my apathy about the model bleeding through. Belles are great cannon fodder and their spells are great utility, but they're certainly not going to kill anything. Depending on the Strategy, I can see myself bringing three...but two seems plenty.

Same. Belles frequently lose you game by just being not killy enough. Im also in the 2 camp. Max.

3. Shikome are really, really scary...until they get hit. They don't last too long if someone wants to get rid of them. Especially when running them with Seamus.

Not sure why you think that. 7 Wd Spirit with above average Df for rezzers and Terrifying for 8 points is pretty good. They go down if you leave them out in the cold though, of course, which people tend to a lot (me included when I get impetuous, it's how I've lost most of the games I've lost with Kirai).

[Edwinn]

Its great to see that you enjoy playing this game. I hope you will learn to play from other characters as well.

[Mergoth]

I use Sybelle as a tank most of the time, though I do love Call Belle for a free 14" move. This then frees up the Belle to use both ap for Luring/what have you.

[demkoenig]

I've had the most success with Kirai when I throw about 3 or 4 spirits in my opponent's face by Turn 2 at the latest. There are a couple things to help with this.

Firstly, Night Terrors give you excellent Into the Spirit World targets. Throw a Night Terror 12" up, then Into the Spirit World. If you take 2 Night Terrors, then you have a second spirit 18" away.

Secondly, Summon an Ikiryo 12" away. Then Soothe Spirits yourself. Hopefully you've healed enough to now summon your Shikome 6-12" away. That could get your Shikome as far as 30" away from your deployment zone without activating.

Then, if you have Datsue making the Gaki ball, or if you just have Gaki with a living model to chase (like a Desperate Merc) the Gaki can move up to 15" a turn, without using Datsue or Swirl shenanigans.

Here's another cool trick I'm looking to try:

Nurse in your deployment zone gives Shikome Reactivate and Stimulant (+2/2 Wk/Cg, +4 Cb, and + to damage). Night Terrors fly up 18" (using their shenanigans). Kirai goes Into the Spirit World, then Summons Ikiryo 12" away. Swirl Spirits the Shikome right into your opponent's face.

That Shikome has a 7" nimble and like a 10Cb? Plus double positive twists on damage?

[DeleteAccount]

Here's another cool trick I'm looking to try:

Nurse in your deployment zone gives Shikome Reactivate and Stimulant (+2/2 Wk/Cg, +4 Cb, and + to damage). Night Terrors fly up 18" (using their shenanigans). Kirai goes Into the Spirit World, then Summons Ikiryo 12" away. Swirl Spirits the Shikome right into your opponent's face.

That Shikome has a 7" nimble and like a 10Cb? Plus double positive twists on damage?

I'd love that, but I think nurse only works on undead or living, so no such luck

[demkoenig]

D'oh!

[DeleteAccount]

Pretty much, if it worked on spirits, I'd totally take a nurse with Kirai. You can reactivate Kirai though thanks to francis commiting suicide for you and if you prepare for the avatar you should be able to reactivate twice during a match, hell, I'm tempted to try that myself...

[DeleteAccount]

Why does everybody stop discussing when I suggest reactivating Kirai?

[Buhallin]

I was considering it, but I see two possible problems/things I wanted to check:

1. I don't remember for sure if Lost Love can save Kirai if she's sacrificed

2. I don't think the Nurse can Massive Dose anything but Living or Undead (as mentioned earlier). I don't remember if Lost Love makes her Undead as well (I don't think he does), and I don't know if Kirai's avatar is inherently a Spirit (but I think she is). Which means that your second Reactivate doesn't work either way.

Wanted to check on those last night, but got busy. So there you go

[DeleteAccount]

I was considering it, but I see two possible problems/things I wanted to check:

1. I don't remember for sure if Lost Love can save Kirai if she's sacrificed

2. I don't think the Nurse can Massive Dose anything but Living or Undead (as mentioned earlier). I don't remember if Lost Love makes her Undead as well (I don't think he does), and I don't know if Kirai's avatar is inherently a Spirit (but I think she is). Which means that your second Reactivate doesn't work either way.

Wanted to check on those last night, but got busy. So there you go

Lost love saves with sacrifice, but you got me with not being able to massive overdose the second time since Kirai becomes a fullfledged spirit. Bummer, 2 turns of 2 activations with Kirai would have been so worth it, but just for one doesn't seem as compelling.

[edonil]

Sorry about the lack of discussion there, Razhem. Personally, the best use I can think of right now for a Nurse in a Seamus or Kirai list is to bring along Sue, because he can Shrug Off the sacrifice effect.

[Buhallin]

Sorry about the lack of discussion there, Razhem. Personally, the best use I can think of right now for a Nurse in a Seamus or Kirai list is to bring along Sue, because he can Shrug Off the sacrifice effect.

OOoooooh, now THAT'S a shiny thought...

[edonil]

Yeah, entertaining, isn't it? Still debating if I want to bother, I'm not that huge a fan of the nurses in the first place, and if that's the only reason I'm spending the 5 SS, I'm not sure it's worthwhile.

[DeleteAccount]

well, just for sue doesn't seem like much of a plan, but you can also reactivate once per game your master and then avatarize which can be pretty sweet if you plan for it well.

[edonil]

...(jaw drops) I remember reading some consideration of that for Nicodem...but that would be brutal with Seamus. Looks like I'll be trying to get that Miss Pack off my friend after all...

[Fetid Strumpet]

But you are spending essentially 5 SS for that ability if someone doesn't kill your Nurse before you get a chance to use her. Also I'm not certain about you but I'm always tight on SS especially since I've been testing Molly. There is no way currently I could fit a nurse in my lists. Maybe if she had Link...