Exorcist - Driven By Purpose

[Mr_Smigs]

(+1) Driven by Purpose: This model suffers 1 Wd. Push this model up to 3"

ok,

two questions.

1. Does this push the model AND give them 1 ap?

2. Is this optional?

it doesn't say "may suffer 1 wd"

so this implies they must take a wound each activation and shuffle on...

[Sliver Chocobo]

It's an extra action that can only made after taking 1Wd

Edit

1) Yes sort of, it doesn't us up Ap Is a better way to put it

2) yes, you don't need to make this action

Edited September 17, 2011 by Sliver Chocobo

[Mr_Smigs]

then WHY is

Passion for his work a "MAY" but this ability does not have "May" in it?

doesn't that imply this is NOT optional?

[Sliver Chocobo]

then WHY is

Passion for his work a "MAY" but this ability does not have "May" in it?

doesn't that imply this is NOT optional?

It's more of a cost then you push 3", but you don't have to pay the cost, unless i've miss under stood you

[Mr_Smigs]

It's more of a cost then you push 3", but you don't have to pay the cost, unless i've miss under stood you

but there's the rub.

other powers (Like Rafkin) say you MAY pay the cost to get the power...

but this one lacks that wording,

where does it say we can choose to NOT pay the cost and thus NOT get the power?

[Sliver Chocobo]

But doesn't say that you must take that action

[Mike3838]

Every model in the game has a long list of abilities that don't say you MAY use them. Are you implying that wherever the word may is missing, this means you MUST use them all?

You pay the cost and the perform the action IF you choose to use it. Same as everything else.

Mike

[Hatchethead]

The v2 McMourning stat card lists:

(+1) Passion for his Work: Discard 1 Body Part counter, this model receives Fast.

This is optional. I've never once considered otherwise. I would assume the same for this ability. Also, Passion does not grant an extra general AP, Fast does. The (+1) denotes an action modifier granting you an additional, specific action, not a general AP (at least not directly). Like Nimble grants a Wk action. In the case of the Exorcist, you are granted a 3" push. I assume he can do this multiple times in a single turn. Take a wound, push. Take a wound, push. Take a wound, etc.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Sliver Chocobo]

No he can't it's persific AP that only be used once

[Hatchethead]

No he can't it's persific AP that only be used once

You're probably right. I'd reference my RM if I had it on hand. I'm sure it says it right there, that action mods can only be applied once per turn. Otherwise, I'd be Nimble over and over and over and over ...

Edited September 17, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Sliver Chocobo]

You're probably right. I'd reference my RM if I had it on hand. I'm sure it says it right there, that action mods can only be applied once per turn. Otherwise, I'd be Nimble over and over and over and over ...

It was covered way back when, over lev's Necromatic Sacrifice

[Mr_Smigs]

Every model in the game has a long list of abilities that don't say you MAY use them. Are you implying that wherever the word may is missing, this means you MUST use them all?

You pay the cost and the perform the action IF you choose to use it. Same as everything else.

Mike

recent other discussions (like those on slow/fast) have established action modifiers as very different from other abilities/actions.

even if they were not,

other model actions are clearly defined that they must spend the AP to use those ability,

but AP generating actions are not listed as voluntary... as Fast and Slow are not voluntary (while other actions that generate them might be) ....

leaving the conclusion that, unless stated otherwise, actions that generate AP are not voluntary unless stated otherwise.

[Akujie]

so Mr. Smigs by your logic, my +1 melee expert always has to make that AP melee strike?

[Ciaran]

so Mr. Smigs by your logic, my +1 melee expert always has to make that AP melee strike?

Yes, and a Fast model HAS to spend it.

This is, of course, incorrect. It doesn't say MUST, it doesn't have to happen in this case.

[Mr_Smigs]

so Mr. Smigs by your logic, my +1 melee expert always has to make that AP melee strike?

no

it HAS to recieve the AP for a Melee Strike.

page 33 says it does not have to use that specific AP

but it still HAS to generate the AP

[Sliver Chocobo]

no

it HAS to recieve the AP for a Melee Strike.

page 33 says it does not have to use that specific AP

but it still HAS to generate the AP

And the same is for driven by purpose, it just needs to take 1Wd for it too use this Ap

[FearLord]

The rules on Specific AP on p.33 clearly say that models "can" use them (optional). Further, they say that a model does not have to use or pass its specific AP, it is simply lost at the end of its activation...

Fast and Slow are slightly different, because they effect General AP, not Specific AP...

[rigol]

I'm probably being a bit slow here, but I'm still confused.

With Driven by Purpose, which of the following two options do you get?:

- a 3" push AND +1AP (to use for an extra attack or whatever) when you expend the Wd

OR

- only the 3" push when you expend the Wd (which would mean it only says +1 to reflect the extra action that is the push).

The wording for The Drowned (which is the model I'm actually interested in) has it as follows:

(+1) Driven by Purpose. This model suffers 1 Wd. Push this model up to 3".

Thanks for any help.

[Mr_Smigs]

The explaination I was given at one point was:

The model gains 1 Specific AP which they can use for the WD/Push exchange.

unfortunately, I've been told that while that makes sense,

it is not how the power is supposed to be interpreted.

that it's an "optional ability" only listed under Actions for tracking purposes, but it might as well be at the top of the list as just an ability that reads "Relentless - once per activation this model may suffer 1 wd and be pushed 3 inches..." or something along those lines...

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24991&page=3

when i pursued the question further, it didn't really become any clearer as to why it has the (+1) but there was some explanation

Edited October 23, 2011 by Mr_Smigs

[Gruesome]

Not trying to necro-bump this or anything, but I cannot find where its stated that the (+1) talents can only be used "once per activation".

"(+1) Driven by Purpose. This model suffers 1 Wd. Push this model up to 3"

Its not saying that I take a wound and get Nimble, for an extra walk as I know that nimble/fast/expert do not stack multiple times. It says push 3.

But, even if it said "gets nimble", it would seem to me that I could still do it multiple times, understanding that getting Nimble multiple times is useless as it adds 1 movement action, period.

So, the issue is obviously about whether "(+1)" talents can be used multiple times or not and I either fail at reading or searching because I do not see that if its been stated CLEARLY.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Gruesome
clarification of question

[Gruesome]

In rereading the manual, the section on "specific AP" in particular, I suppose that I MIGHT see the rule I was looking for...

"Regardless of their source, specific actions do not stack"

So, if "Driven by purpose" is considered to be a specific action, or "state/mode" as I think of it, similar to "fast" just being something you either are or are not, then using the action once makes you "driven by purpose" which, in turn, allows you to push 3 inches. Once you are "driven by purpose", you do not again become "driven by purpose" during the same activation.

To be honest, I feel like the wording, mechanic and card nomenclature for these sorts of "actions" could be made far less confusing with some alterations that do not change their behaviors, just their wording and descriptions.

[GrAYFoX]

Yes, it definitely could be clearer. My understanding regarding this example is as follows:

From Pg. 32-33

• All action points are generated at the start of a models activation i.e. 2 general, a 0 and any specific
  

• The general AP can only be spent on non specific actions as the (+*) is another category of actions
  

• The specific action such as (+1 ability name) grants you 1 action point to spend on that ability only. (+2) grants two action points for that ability only and so on
  

• Once spent, you no longer have any AP that will work on that ability hence why most can only be used once per activation regardless of the abilities resulting effect
  

• Specific actions do not stack, thus preventing other sources from utilizing them again
  

• Fast and Slow are action modifiers (pg. 34), as they grant and deny general AP and are not comparable to specific actions even though some specific actions may grant them
  

Hopefully the upcoming living FAQ will make it clearer, but I'm fairly certain it works as above.

Edited April 23, 2012 by GrAYFoX
Spelling

[Gruesome]

I like your wording.

And for me, the reality is, now that I know the rule, I am not finding it hard to remember. In thinking back, I realize that I had already trained my brain to understand that a "(0)" action was only usable once. (Without Instinctual, duh) Now I just add that a "(+1)" is only usable once. Easy peezy.

It just took me a very long time to be made to understand that's the case and that I needed to have that rule.

For about a month, I was planning on buying a bunch of "Drowned". Now, maybe not so much...

(Although I probably still will, just because I can't stand not having all the rezzer models, even ones I do not use... I have issues...)