Pokey Victoria (or rather, magical weapon) a bit over the top?

[Headcase2]

So this is how Pokey Victoria killed my Saemus in my last game: Pokey Vic builds up a hand (picking up high cards instead of activating puppets with them) and moves up the board during the last activation phase (using frog legs if needed for extra distance), end turn. Use piggy to activate Vik quickly, tear apart a toybox puppet for cards (and an upgrade), move three spaces, gain ranged weapon 2, gain powerful +1, attack and cheat if needed, gain thumpin' mode, attack again and cheat if needed. Game over.

The reason this is so hard to defend against is because of her magical weapon. If she has two high cards in hand odds are you can't do anything to stop her from inflicting 4 damage on pretty much any puppet within 4 squares. The usual 'ace for dodge' trick doesn't even work, since you just end up with a random numerical value and nothing else, and high cards played from hand are usually easily matched. Even if you somehow succeed in surviving (unlikley) she can just suffer a rip and activate again if you can't kill her in retaliation (and she'd still have all her buffs up!).

So, my suggestion is: allow a card used to dodge to keep its suit(s) against magical weapons.

[Mr.Church]

I think it may be the fact that Viktoria is a little bit skewed in power. We've play quite a few games with her now and the only games she doesn't completely dominate the entire field quickly are ones that involve 3 or 4 players with all players teaming up to take her down.

It's just the shear amount of swiss armyness that she has. Combined with card drawing puppets and free activators she can do most everything and she can do it lightning quick.

I'm willing to admit that there might be something we're missing, and if there is I would like to know I'm wrong. I love the game but we've had to limit her to one per game with 3 or 4 and try to avoid her in 2 players.

[Gollum528]

I won't argue that she's not good because she is but I think she's very one dimensional and that's her drawback. In order to use her well you send her after your opponent's master and kill it quickly. If you know your opponent is doing this attach the punk zombie upgrade which negates her powerful. If she's burning through cards it means she won't be able to dodge. If you have the hooded rider, rusty alyce, nino, bete, marcus (I think), or convict gunslinger and maybe some others, when she comes over to attack your master like that she's leaving herself open to be killed in one hit. It's an all or nothing strategy that if you know how to defend against will make her almost useless. If you're playing against her, play board control because all the other masters are better at it than her, this will force her to go after your master which leaves her open to to be killed if you can make it fail (again, I suggest the punk zombie for this).

[Gollum528]

In my opinion, Pandora is the best master in this game because of her BYOB and it seems everything quick likes to use masks. I could be wrong though, I've only played a dozen or so games.

[Justin]

Worth noting: in puppet wars each player reveals his or her master before assembling the rest of the toy box.

And, has been stated, Pokey Vik is very all or nothing and, if that attack fails, she may very easily end up dead. So if you know you're facing her you may want to think about some of the instant kill puppets mentioned, or even Kade. Viktoria with a stuck counter wouldn't be all that useful.

Block LoS to your master with other puppets which are harder to kill, like Bad Juju, etc as well if you know it's coming.

[Headcase2]

(again, I suggest the punk zombie for this).

I thought of that too, but it says "No Master".

[Headcase2]

If you have to dump your own strategy completely because your opponent declares Pokey Vik and otherwise you won't survive past turn 3, something is wrong with the power balance in my opinion.

And she may be one-dimensional, but the one dimension she's good at is winning...

[karn987]

It's always a matter of give an take. I think once you get used to Pokey Vik and seeing how much face she wrecks, things sorta fall into place. Like now I just stall her, toss a Belle in her face and she'll be there for a while and I can go about my strategy still. Paralyzing her is always another good option, or even just Confuseing her. Kade can give her a Stuck Counter which does her in.

As the game rolls on she won't be that bad, still going to be mean but manageable. She's the Master that is good at killing other Masters, so it makes her unique compared to the other 4. When against her it's not just about the WB's any more, Master kill becomes a much greater possibility. So you just have to take that into account. When playing with finely tuned Toyboxes, you'll encounter potent lists like hers. It just means you need to tweak yours a bit to deal with it.

What lists are your opponents using that have her dominating so much?

I would say her big weakness is her hand. She requires a lot of cards to become seriously dangerous

Edited September 14, 2011 by karn987

[Mr.Church]

Mostly she takes Joss, pigs, ronin, acolytes...only things with free activatiors and card draw and so far in two player it really hasn't mattered what puppets we bring to the table she murders anything that's not a belle or bad juju and by turn 3 at least she kills the master. Only stall we really have is to pile all the puppets you have in your list infront of her and hope you picked Seamus and some belles because your gonna need the ressurection.

[Headcase2]

List of Death:

Vik

Rider (turns any occupied WB into a potential death zone)

Alyce or Misaki

Silurid (or rather: frog legs)

Piglet(s)

And for the rest Ronin, Acolytes,...

Tar pits might work, but even then it's usually only a matter of time.

[Mr.Church]

Oh man I forgot about that. God forbid she get frog legs.

[Justin]

Oh man I forgot about that. God forbid she get frog legs.

This is, I feel, a potentially valid point.

And it is being looked at.

Without frog legs I don't see Vik as any better than any of the other masters. She's nasty, for sure, but I think she stands out because she's nasty alone. The other masters need other puppets. Take Lady J for example, ETC on an austringer means you're making Cb 4 attacks with powerful +1 against virtually any model you want at no danger to the Austringer or J. Marcus can bounce one rip between any number of rattlers so they all get multitasker when they animate. Maybe attach the ice cubes on one so he draws cards as he moves the rip. Etc, etc, I could go on. Vik just does her thing without help, but she also doesn't boost her puppets in any way (aside from her generic master ability) and using her effectively means risking the game each time you do.

She also has the highest AR for any master at 7 which means not only potentially burning cards to animate her, but also that she may end up going later in the round which could result in her being killed. And, also, it means every other master in the game can potentially animate before her. (potentially, given the right low card)

Edited September 15, 2011 by Justin

[karn987]

Why don't we turn this around, what are peoples ideas and thoughts for handling Pokey Viktoria?

Personally, I like to get her with Baby Kade's Tantrum; a stuck counter really takes the wind out of her sails. Or hiting her with Paralyzed or Confused at the right time can serve just as well.

When I'm trying to keep her back, yeah I have to sacrifice a Puppet or two but that's why I love Seamus and his Belles so much, renewable tanks!

Anyone got any other ideas for handling her? Specific combinations they like etc?

[AcesOfBooks]

I've never fought her but I'd try to get a sorrow next her and have pandora downer to hold her up while baby Cade moves in for the tantrum. With downer and the sorrow's oppressive she gets 9:masks to activate. This is all theoretical though lol

[Gollum528]

Whenever I have played against her, I have stayed back. I sent my quick puppets out to claim work benches as fast as I can which forces her to do the master kill quickly. I play as Pandora the most so I alway keep her back on her home work bench. I keep a few bodyguards for my master. Between the hooded rider and Rusty Alyce, with the right placement, I believe you can always guarantee to kill her before she gets close enough to your master.

[Bohemian]

Remember she can also use "Two for One" to move three spaces closer by switching with a friendly puppet. That is five spaces instead of four.

I did lose a game to her, but I think that was more because of the board and what I took versus what my opponent took. He also played a much better game than me.

I shut her down in a three player game with paralyzed. The two of us did not gang up on her either. I have to agree with Karn about paralyzed, stuck and confused. There are several puppets that can activate before her and shut her down to set her up to be killed. Paralyzed or stuck work better so she cannot move out of harms way.

[Omenbringer]

I like to use Marcus' Fire + Stuffing= Scary to Paralyze her (definately stops her cold). Additionally he can use Hide Pet and impassable terrain to dictate her advances (if you can also Block LOS to friendly Mercenary Puppet's then she cant use Two for One either.

Of course there is always the Tazed! action of the Razorspine Rattler which can also Paralyze her easily and at a range of 2 (throw the Blind fold upgrade on the Razorspine early and make this ignore LOS).

The nastiest part of Pokey Viktoria is the ability to do so much with just "free actions" which gets around her higher animation cost (though if she is not careful she burns through cards very quickly and neglects the other puppets).

[Ratty]

Yeah Omen, as Pokey has an activation of 7 and Marcus has an activation of 5, I watched a game where every turn Marcus cheated in a 5 or 6 on the first round and just Paralysed Vik. she did nothing all game.

[Headcase2]

Don't get hung up on the high activation cost, Piglets can activate her even on a black joker. Activating late in one turn and early in the next effectively doubles her threat range, and keeps her safe from paralysis and the likes since she just avoids those threats.

[AcesOfBooks]

True and if she had Lucius's cane she'd be even worse

[Omenbringer]

True and if she had Lucius's cane she'd be even worse

That saves her from Stuck but does nothing to counter Paralyzed.

[Backno]

I have always liked using Seamus vs big nasty puppets. It is by no means a guarantee, but it can help slow them down so you can wall them up and tear em apart.