Viktoria's Scheme and Leviticus

[Zaqir]

I was just wondering if Leveticus using his powers to die at the end of the turn counts towards helping my opponent get credit for this scheme?

Does Levi dying count as being killed?

[edonil]

Leveticus only counts as killed if he's off the board at the end of the game...so no, he wouldn't count for this.

[gnam]

Where is this rule from?

Leveticus's card clearly references when he is killed or sacrificed, which would imply he indeed is killed.

Viktoria's scheme requires the Viktoria crew to have the first two models who are killed be in the opposing crew.

I see no where that Levi's ability to come back counters the fact that he did actually die.

[edonil]

Hm. Maybe I'm thinking this through wrong. I do know that for things like Assassinate and such, Leveticus has to be off the board at the end of the game to be considered 'dead'.

[gnam]

That i agree with as it clearly says in bodyguard and assassinate that they have to be dead.

Maybe someone else will be able to clarify for us.

[Zaqir]

While I agree with the dead part and would somehow like the ruling to be in my favor (Ie levi isn't considered killed) I think Killing and being dead are different but since this came up in a tourney I would like to know just for future events.

[poulpox]

I'm pretty sure he counts as dead only if he can't come back (ie the turn is over and there are no Waif and no Levi in play)

EDIT: sorry re-read the scheme and my answer has nothing to do with it... not sure about that one.

Edited September 12, 2011 by poulpox

[Zaqir]

Yes but does counting as "dead" differ from counting as being "killed".?

[Xiayose]

Yes but does counting as "dead" differ from counting as being "killed".?

I don't have the rules manual on me right now, but based off of how I remember the schemes to be stated, Levin killing himself with the 1 damage ability would count for Viktorias scheme. Note that the schemes that require someone to be dead, really say that they are not in the game at the end of the encounter, or that they were killed AND not in the game at the end of the encounter.

Another view is that Levi's scheme requires him to be killed or sacrificed during four turns, which can't happen if his killing himself and coming back does not count for Viktorias scheme.

[Zaqir]

I don't have the rules manual on me right now, but based off of how I remember the schemes to be stated, Levin killing himself with the 1 damage ability would count for Viktorias scheme. Note that the schemes that require someone to be dead, really say that they are not in the game at the end of the encounter, or that they were killed AND not in the game at the end of the encounter.

Another view is that Levi's scheme requires him to be killed or sacrificed during four turns, which can't happen if his killing himself and coming back does not count for Viktorias scheme.

What about scenarios that count toward the total points killed during the encounter or am do they have some stipulation as well (don't have my rule book with me atm)

[LoboStele]

OK guys, here's the way it works. When Levi dies at the end of a turn, due to his ability that causes 1 Wd, then yes, he is Killed. Yes, that would count toward First Blood. However, if he comes back due to the Hollow Waifs, it would not count for Assassinate. For Assassinate, he has to be not 'in play' at the end of the game. That clause of Assassinate makes Masters like Levi, Hamelin, and the Viks exceptionally good against Assassinate.

As for the last question there, in a Slaughter Strategy, you only get points if YOU actually kill Levi. If he dies due to his 1 Wd at the end of the turn thing, no points are awarded. Even if you kill both Hollow Waifs, and then he takes 1 Wd and dies, and is permanently out of the game, you won't get the points because YOU did not make the killing Dg against him, his own ability did.

Now, that said, if you do manage to reduce Levi to 0 Wds and kill him, even if he still has Hollow Waifs in play, and does come back at the end of the turn, you would still get the 10 points for Slaughter purposes. However, you can only collect those 10 points one time. So, killing him in future rounds would get you nothing more.

That make sense of it?

[Zaqir]

Yep thanks

[Keltheos]

Lobo's got it.

[Xiayose]

What about scenarios that count toward the total points killed during the encounter or am do they have some stipulation as well (don't have my rule book with me atm)

Those strategies specifically tell you to count the first kill only for models that come back after being killed. That strategy spells out in a whole paragraph how to count out those points, so it accounts for pretty much every special situation.

Hmm, didn't notice the second page. Whoops.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Xiayose
oblivious