the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I was just wondering what everybodies general views are on Bete? I've heard people say that she's not worth 9 ss for a model that doesn't start on the field and that she doesn't have a good damage output, but other people say that they never go battle without her. Any more views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkid Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 All I can say is when I don't take her I almost always regret it. Yes, there are crews that she's less effective against (spirits,constructs etc.) but you should never underestimate the deterrent that is 'paralyse'. Besides, your running a resser crew, you'll get plenty of opportunity to use her when your own troops drop like flies (then get up again....as Dead Doxy's!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Ok, thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Pull my finger has a pretty big post about her, which I'm sure you'll find helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 My problem with her isn't really what she does - which is inflict consistent damage and/or throw out Paralyze - it's her drawbacks. The living limitation on Paralyze kills her for me. If she didnt have that, she's be a great model. Her lack of survivability also is bad. One hit can take her down. Any method that doesnt target Df WILL take her down. You're forced to hold a high card in your hand to keep her around via StD. And that's *if* she gets a StD action - many things can remove her without causing one. She may be great when you know what you're facing, but almost every crew has something that waters her down a lot, so when you're playing true rules she just can't make her points up imho. Compare her to Coppellius for what she wishes she was. A utility model with some consistent damage and great paralysis ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I see your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 take her against players that kill there own models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 take her against players that kill there own models Take it against players that kills your models. :hidingpuppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 On a serous note aganist ressers and lilith's grow list and other lists that like to kil there own models she's really good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 On a serous note aganist ressers and lilith's grow list and other lists that like to kil there own models she's really good Back to my point - if you know what you're facing, she's great. If you're playing the game properly, she's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Back to my point - if you know what you're facing, she's great. If you're playing the game properly, she's not. You can say that with most models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Back to my point - if you know what you're facing, she's great. If you're playing the game properly, she's not. Really not true... she is all around a very useful model against nearly any crew. I don't see why your bashing her so much, it seems like your to busy looking over the fence. If your looking at her just as a model to abuse, no she isn't really that abuseable. But she is extremely solid. Her Paralyze is fantastic, there are enough living models in the game to make it useful and a fair amount of those are Masters/Avatars. Being able to Paralyze one of them with just a hit, which then does damage (better then Coppelius's since his doesn't let hiim do damage and isn't a Cb 7). Sure you can't use it against the non-living, but I'll take this any day. She is exceedingly hard to kill unless your either unlucky or your opponent has a specific set of abilities that can stop her from burying. She is a model that you need to be equipped specially to actually deal with completely. Otherwise she will hang around for most of the game, constantly harassing you. Given the fact that she can hit accurately and with enough punch to make you feel it... she is a big threat. Cb 6 paired with 2/3/4, Rott, and an instant kill trigger? Then you add in Flurry and Depraved Tactics. Thats dangerous. You then have the fact that she can pop up in the exact worst location for your opponent. Many times she sneaks into angles you didn't account for or really couldn't account for and causes problems. So she is great for striking weak points, blitz tactics, and objective grabbing. She is not even that easy to get rid of, Df 7... Average Cb is about 5.5ish cross the board, so she has an advantage against 90% of hte models right there. Then it becomes the simple matter of weighing cheating high to dodge something or using One with the Night and coming back later. Yes she is vulnerable on her Wp and her low wds means damage that doesnt go against her Df will get her. But that is her vulnerability and if she didn't have that, she would be broken. Don't compare her to Coppelius, or whatever from another faction. She isn't from that faction and that isn't a justified arguement as you don't have the option of taking those models. In her faction, where it really matters to compare her, Bete is fantastic. Of course she is going to seem lacking in some ways compared to what other factions may have. Thats how you establish diversity and balance in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Huummm...... interesting conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNs Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 My experience with Bete is that she's "great" until your opponents learn how to manage her, at which point she's merely "good". Karn makes some great points: she's got a solid Cb of Paired 6, some nasty triggers, and a very good Df. She is "squishy", but StD with One with the Night give her some good survivability. But she's got some odd-problems: Her unique placement mechanic works great a defense to pulses, etc etc; but also makes it harder to synergize non-Aura effects with her. She's a low on wounds in a faction that has a large number of healing effects. Her damage output gets really hampered by certain classes of models (Non-living models with Armor can cause her problems). Sure, she can pass out Slow - but then I'm usually taking her as a heavy-hitter, not as a board control piece (which, admittedly, might be why I've taken less of a shine to her as of late). To that end: she's a very good consistent damage dealer (and great at hacking through H2W), but she's not a high damage dealer. I think coming from a Book 1 background (only recently picking up Book 2 and 3), I've yet to adjust to looking at her as another control piece, rather than a heavy hitter. That may be influencing the broader meta's opinion as well. tl;dr - She's solid, but she's not "Zomgxorz auto-include". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I'm a big fan. I can't imagine Nicodem crew without Bête Noire (and I also think she has the best synergy with him). I don't agree with Calmdown dim view of her drawbacks - where Bête is limited more than Collodi (or other models of similar value), she also provides utility no other model in the game offers (including Killjoy). Her Paralyzed is limited, but it is also one of the easiest versions of this effect to apply. All the spells, triggers and abilities that apply Paralyzed rely either on right suit, high card, offer opponent chance for a Resist flip or require some other conditions to be fulfilled. Paralyzed is a very powerful effect, and it isn't all that easy to apply. In contrast, she paralyzes her opponents with mere hit, which isn't all that hard to do if you consider her Cb, her paired weapons and Flurry on the top of that. She's also good enough at killing models, even masters, with right buffs - anything that adds to her Cb (Nurses, Nicodem), Flurry it and you may end up doing 10~12 damage to Lilith (more likely to burn her Hand though), never mind masters with lower Df. What Bête has, which no other model in the game offers, is the constant threat. She can come out of any kill or sacrifice - if you feel secure, you may pop her out when you kill an opponent. Nicodem can spawn her when he uses a Mindless Zombie to reanimate some other Undead or when sacrificing Mindless Zombie to prevent an attack from hitting him. If you sacrifice something in the Closing Phase, she can spawn - win initiative and she goes first. But the most important is that the opponent has to watch his action points - you don't want to kill Ressurrectionist model with your last AP at the end of activation, because she will pop up and she's good enough to kill many elite models in one go... and when she does that, she gets one extra general AP too, so there's a good chance to hide her or simply immediately re-burry her. Last but not least, any 10+ for One with the Night isn't all that high of a requirement. Personally I never find myself without the card - perhaps because my master (Nico) can re-draw cards and has higher chance of coming across the right card, but also because you don't have to deploy her into risky situations, when you don't have the right card in Hand... Most of the time the threat of her appearing is enough to cause opponent to over-commit, and I generally think this is a very good thing to happen - Rezzers typically have number advantage, quite good mud-trap types of units and if opponents spends even more units than he has to to deal with these mud-traps, he plays to our advantage. That last part is why I think she is a very good all-comer model and you don't have to know your opponent to take her. Even non-living crews have to take possibility of her popping out into consideration. And did I mention the model is really good? It's simple, but I love the dynamic and the pose. Edited September 9, 2011 by Q'iq'el Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Bete is good stuff, IMO. She does pretty good damage simply through being so reliable. Paralyze - well, I really don't like the post-book 1 trend of making everything non-living, but Slow is pretty powerful in itself. The trouble with her is that she ruins your hand in that you need to hoard a good card, but other than that she is golden, IMO. Compare her to Coppellius for what she wishes she was. A utility model with some consistent damage and great paralysis ability. Eh, if you start comparing stuff to Neverborn, you just end up playing Neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 In my experience her dmg output doesn't match up to what she costs, which is a shame because I really want to like her. The problem is Ressers often lack good solid useful hammers for their crews and that is the slot Bete often gets taken for. The issue is that because of her mechanic to enter the game she is very difficult to use in the current environment. When you begin the game you are down 9 SS in models to activate so you will often get out activated which is a very powerful advantage to hand to your opponent. Even once you get her out, assuming the best case scenario and it was from an enemy killing your model on its last action point, aside from her paralyze she doesn't do much dmg I find. And even if she does and she hides away again due to One with the Night, think about how many effective turns are you getting with her? Two or Three... maybe? For 9 SS? I agree I love her paralyze when you can get it to work, but if you are taking her for control purposes,... just take Molly instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Would anyone advise using in a seamus crew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 seamuses members can be a lot more resilient that mcmourning or nico crew, so when using a belle based list is it worth taking bete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I used to use her in Seamus crews. Against living Crews should would often rock,... sometimes. Against non-living crews...not so much. I mainly just hated not having her from the beginning, being 9 SS down in activation count is very rough. I take Molly now, haven't looked back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 ok, yes, i have the model for my seamus crew but i have instead decided to save her for my McM crew when i get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 I don't think you can really count "soulstones worth of activation". She's one model, so you're one model down. If you want to argue that her points would be better spent on numerous smaller models to help the activation advantage, that's one thing, but she's one model not in play - that's still just one model whether she costs 2 stones or 20. Most of my feelings have already been expressed. I don't always use her, but I like her with both Seamus and McMourning (don't play Nico, and not enough living/undead on your side if you're running Kirai). I do tend to use her more often with McMourning, but that has more to do with Seamus' crew already having auto-take slots for the more expensive models (I pretty much always run him with a Hanged - throw in Bete and not many points left over). If nothing else, I'm liking her as a nasty surprise for the growing number of "Take a Desperate Merc to kill him first turn" lists out there. Odds are you should have the 10+ to re-bury her without much other use for it first turn. Dropping her that deep in the lines will, at the very least, force whoever/whatever is activating to spend its last action to try and deal with her, which will interrupt whatever nasty combos they've got shaping up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkid Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Would anyone advise using in a seamus crew? I run a Seamus crew so, yes. She gives some much needed melee ability. Bette + Avatar Seamus is a lot of fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_madhatter1 Posted September 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hum.. will try that out certainly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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