Jonas Albrecht Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 If Wyrd were to make a Rules Manual 2 with all the faction stats in, Avatar etc - basically everything as updated as possible with no fluff, I'd certainly buy it. Much easier and smaller to carry around for a start, compared to 4 books. Hell, I'd buy a Factions of Malifaux: Guild book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 If Wyrd were to make a Rules Manual 2 with all the faction stats in, Avatar etc - basically everything as updated as possible with no fluff, I'd certainly buy it. Much easier and smaller to carry around for a start, compared to 4 books. While there is certainly an argument to be made that such a book would be useful (as lots of stats changed on the cards, and I'd like an accurate reflection of the models in factions I don't play) why do you need to carry all the books around? When I go out to play, I take the Rules manual and the cards of the models I'm using... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Fair point, I probably would too, but in the long run I'd still end up carrying around each faction book, so not that great an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geckilian Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 why do you need to carry all the books around? Though I'm not a henchman, I lend the books out to my 2 gaming groups, which allows them to proxy models they don't have, try new masters and generally get a better feel for the game. This helps me also as I get more varied games, and I certainly don't mind facing proxies if it gets another friend playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 why do you need to carry all the books around? For most of last year, the reason to do so was the lack of released models. Now it's for completion sake and to show others who might be interested. Though three books in a bag is nowhere near a hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hell, I'd buy a Factions of Malifaux: Guild book. Factions of Malifaux: Gremlins, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hell, I'd buy a Factions of Malifaux: Guild book. +1 on that, or actually release faction decks of cards along side a rules manual 2 maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Bosch Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I would also like to see more rulebooks without the fluff. I really enjoy Malifaux as a game, and I think many of the ideas behind the fluff are great... but the actual execution leaves a lot to be desired. I haven't bought Books 2 or 3 for exactly that reason. On a related note- Avatars in general are silly and really take away from the core of what makes Malifaux great. The more the characters become superheroes (and villains), the less interesting they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbodog Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 -1 BOOO! Regarding factions books! Big thumbs down. As a former WH40k player, one of the things that drew me to Malifaux and away from 40k was the fact that all models up to a certain update of the rules were contained in one book. I do NOT want to have anything resembling codex for each faction. Furthermore, too many models jump factions when hiring. Do you want to need to buy an Arcanist book just to have the info on a Malifaux Raptor, since any guild list that employs an Austringer can take one? Way way way too many of these neat interactions to merit faction books. If you feel the need to change the format of how Wyrd currently publishes books, then by type is acceptable. Separate Rules book (no models, no fluff), Separate Models book (ALL Faction models in the game with updated stats/errata, but no rules, no fluff), Separate Fluff book(s). But honestly, I like how Wyrd does it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 On a related note- Avatars in general are silly and really take away from the core of what makes Malifaux great. How do you know? You haven't read the fluff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverEnding Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I actually have to agree that it changes the characters a bit which irks me but I've shifted more towards the competitive side of gaming and I'm pretty stoked about them. Also in the fluff it makes sense. (By the way, I'm picking up Marcus now, just for aMarcus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Bosch Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 How do you know? You haven't read the fluff... I've read quite a lot of the fluff, though admittedly not all of it. It ranges from "enthusiastically amatuerish" to "pretty dire," with a few high spots here and there. Mechanically, though, I don't think Avatars take the game in the right direction. Malifaux started as an awesome skirmish game of generally street-level characters (to borrow superhero terminology) trying to carve out their own agendas in a hostile world. Avatars push these interesting characters into a different power level and move their conflicts from personal to more 'epic.' Note that I am not using 'epic' in a complimentary form here- bigger is not always better. Jonas said it well: Avatars are like if 2/3 of the way through "Gangs of New York," diCaprio's character suddenly turned into a Super Saiyan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispep Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I think avatars while changing the game, are changing it for the better. If there is no "power creep" then things get stagnant and boring. Avatars up the ante, and bring something different and unique to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 and bring something different and unique to the table. What they bring to the table is a $35 model that's going to be on said table for 2-3 rounds of the Encounter in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 What they bring to the table is a $35 model that's going to be on said table for 2-3 rounds of the Encounter in most cases. Well it is actually still something unique and different Jonas. You also don't have to use them if you don't want to, they cost 2ss to attach so your not automatically weakening your crew by not taking one. Plus the same thing could be said about Bad Juju, he doesn't hit the table for to many rounds most games and yet a lot of players have him. It sounds like you really just don't like the Avatars at all. I've not been following any of the other threads the last few days, so why don't you like them? Is it simply just that, $35ish model that only is used for 2-3 rounds? Or is there something more to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 It sounds like you really just don't like the Avatars at all. I've not been following any of the other threads the last few days, so why don't you like them? Is it simply just that, $35ish model that only is used for 2-3 rounds? Or is there something more to it? That's something I've been discussing since Book 2 came out, making is abudantly clear that Avatars were coming. Really, my Gangs of New York comment sums it up, it's a complete tonal shift, and not for the better. All the charm of Malifaux has been swept aside for these power ups, and that is my main issue. Mechanically, the Manifest clock means those powerups are going to be sitting on the sidelines for much of the Encounter, while players run around the board trying to accomplish their requirements. No, I am not worried about having to take them. Which is good, because I don't plan to. What I still see is a huge misstep in both theme and gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Frankly speaking, we are at the point where game is big enough to cut your own chunks out of it. There's completely nothing, nothing at all, preventing you from making a no-avatars tournament or a no-avatars campaign in your local store/club. There are new models besides avatars and even within Book 1 and 2 there's enough amount of stuff to collect for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Shaper Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Can we all calm down and if you don't like Avatars then you don't have to take them... They can be beat as has been discussed before and I've been reading some reports of people not wanting to manifest so they can use the standard master instead. If you only want to play book one with your group go ahead and do it but some people like what's been coming in book 2 and in book 3 but since over all not many people have been able to get book 3 yet can we all wait until we've had some experence with them before determining that they are broken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Can we all calm down and if you don't like Avatars then you don't have to take them... Don't have that option storywise. They can be beat No one's arguing that they can't be. If you only want to play book one with your group go ahead and do it but some people like what's been coming in book 2 and in book 3 but since over all not many people have been able to get book 3 yet can we all wait until we've had some experence with them before determining that they are broken... Again, I don't feel forced to use Avatars. I don't feel they are broken. Let's keep the interjection of arguments that no one is making to a minimum. preventing you from making a no-avatars tournament or a no-avatars campaign in your local store/club. I don't even think that's necessary. I'm not going to impose my preference on other players. You guys are really going out of your way to not understand my points. Edited August 29, 2011 by Jonas Albrecht Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I guess I sorta see your point, Jonas. For me, I thought they did a decent job tying it into the story, but there is a part of me that is hoping for more of those 'normal' kind of people (the Washroom crew from the Arcanist story especially) because that was/is part of the charm to Malifaux. I think if they include more Henchmen, it'd be a nice way to balance things out. As a side note: English Ivan for Henchman please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I guess I sorta see your point, Jonas. For me, I thought they did a decent job tying it into the story, but there is a part of me that is hoping for more of those 'normal' kind of people (the Washroom crew from the Arcanist story especially) because that was/is part of the charm to Malifaux. I think if they include more Henchmen, it'd be a nice way to balance things out. As a side note: English Ivan for Henchman please! Much of the fluff does hint that several characters will be coming into their own, leadership-wise. I wont lie, I hope this means we'll be seeing some variants of our favorite second stringers, instead of just a rules set for upgrading them to Henchmen. For me, I thought they did a decent job tying it into the story They bombarded everyone with strange energy that gave the Master's new powers. There could not be a lazier way to introduce avatars to the storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 That might be interesting. Misaki is by far the one I'm most curious about with where they're taking her...I can see either a variant of her, a Henchman version, or possibly her father stepping in to take over the Ten Thunders in Malifaux. (Unlikely the last, considering the role of an Oyabun, but still would be interesting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Just leave it like this, if you don't like Avatars you don't have to take them. It also means (not saying your doing this Jonas) you don't have to fire bomb every thread about them. Everyone's opinions matter but it gets very discouraging to try and have a thread about them and yet again someone blasts the thread and starts a rage war. If we're talking about who is the easiest to manifest, why the heck do we need to start talking about who likes the theme of Avatars or the mechanics? That's not what the thread is about. Stay on topic please and stop these rampant tangents into "I hate this" or "Wyrd sucks" or "this is OP" or "blah blah is broken". I've counted 8 threads in the last week ruined by this attitude. Yes you have a right to voice your opinion, but do us all a favor and don't ruin threads or sidetrack meaningful conversations to do it. Start a new thread and stop detracting from others. :sadpuppet1 Edited August 29, 2011 by karn987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 You guys are really going out of your way to not understand my points. Nah, rather trying to be positive about things. I understand the detachement coming when the fluff goes different way we'd like it to go. At the same time it is more or less impossible to lead the storyline and the fluff so that it pleases everyone. I'm myself of the opinion that Malifaux could go slower with the power boosts. But I don't think running own tournaments or campaigns is imposing or forcing anyone to do anything. As the thing are, there are always too few people willing to organize anything - any idea you'd consider more fun or better experience, turned into something others can attend, will attract players and everybody will be more happy for it. There's only benefit in it for everyone involved. So I guess my point was, it's really easy to simply ignore things you don't like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted August 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Just leave it like this, if you don't like Avatars you don't have to take them. It also means (not saying your doing this Jonas) you don't have to fire bomb every thread about them. Everyone's opinions matter but it gets very discouraging to try and have a thread about them and yet again someone blasts the thread and starts a rage war. If we're talking about who is the easiest to manifest, why the heck do we need to start talking about who likes the theme of Avatars or the mechanics? That's not what the thread is about. Stay on topic please and stop these rampant tangents into "I hate this" or "Wyrd sucks". I've counted 8 threads in the last week ruined by this attitude. Yes you have a right to voice your opinion, but do us all a favor and don't ruin threads or sidetrack meaningful conversations to do it. Start a new thread and stop screwing up others. I like how you ask me for clarification on my stance and then trot this out to dismiss me. What in the hell. I'm not interested in this being the narrative of the board, this conversation was not a firebomb, it resulted from people asking me about my stance. As for the topic, you'll note that as soon as it strayed back towards it's original idea, I jumped right into that conversation. As for meaningful conversation, "Easiest manifestation requirements" doesn't fit the bill. It's a thread I started for some throwaway conversation. And you will note, I am not just going around stating "Wyrd Sucks" or "I hate this". Nor have I been arguing about things being "Broke" or "OP". I have been detailed in my reasoning. I have been willing to discuss my points, and unlike a lot of you, I've been willing to avoid dismissing your ideas with bull$$$$$$$$ like "well that's your opinion". And I've kept the discussion contained. Here. I have no intention of starting another thread so I can go through this all again. I realize I've got my jaws on the fancy new pillow that you all like, and you really want me to let it go. But you know what? This dog thinks it's an ugly ass pillow. Edited August 29, 2011 by Jonas Albrecht Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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