Starting malifaux and rasputina

[loki13]

I am just starting to get into malifaux, and so far I have the rulebook and nothing else. I play lots of other tabletop wargames, thought it was time to give this one a shot. So my main focus is the models I want to paint, but I would like to make a list that would at least be competitive in games with my group (no tournaments). So my challenge/ question for you is can you make a decent list out of these models, or will it be nigh impossible to win with. I guess I'm aiming for 30-35 ss, because it seems that's what most people play.

Rasputina

Ice Golem

Saber Tooth

December Acolyte

Essence of Power

Silent One

[Calmdown]

I am just starting to get into malifaux, and so far I have the rulebook and nothing else. I play lots of other tabletop wargames, thought it was time to give this one a shot. So my main focus is the models I want to paint, but I would like to make a list that would at least be competitive in games with my group (no tournaments). So my challenge/ question for you is can you make a decent list out of these models, or will it be nigh impossible to win with. I guess I'm aiming for 30-35 ss, because it seems that's what most people play.

Rasputina

Ice Golem

Saber Tooth

December Acolyte

Essence of Power

Silent One

Well you have only have exactly a 35ss list there if you include 4 extra SS for Rasputina. Let me run through these models briefly for you:

Ice Golem - Spending 9 points on a ridiculously easy to kill model (armour isn't as good as practice as it seems on paper, his defense means every attack hits him, and he's ultra slow) is like giving the game away for free. Relegate this model to your showcase and never let it near a table, it's so bad it's like playing with a 9 point handicap.

Cerberus - Playable but not great. Generally will jump in, attack stuff, then either die or at least take enough wounds to make it barely a threat. Usable until you get something better.

December Acolyte - Similar to Cerberus, playable but not great. has very, very limited uses in very niche situations where it becomes worth its points but in general you should be spending your points on better. Again, workable til you get something better. And arm crossbows are freaking cool.

EoP - Auto include with Rasputina. She's all about getting off big damage nukes. Good choice.

Silent One - Every Rasputina list should be running these, sometimes one and preferably two.

So, to answer your question in summary: if your opponents have similarly chosen 'cool factor' models, and if they're also new, then you'll be fine. If your opponents are playing even semi-reasonable lists, they will likely stomp on you.

Also bare in mind that Malifaux can be a tough game to learn; it's hard to beat experienced players until you win the ropes regardless of your list. Rasputina is particularly hard to win with because of her poor maneuverability. Expect to take a good thrashing whilst you're learning!

If you want to get a bit more serious with your list, pick up Snow Storm, another Silent One and a Convict Gunslinger and you can run this:

Rasputina

Essence of Power

Silent One x2

Snow Storm

Convict Gunslinger

+4ss for Rasputina

Which is pretty fluffy, lots of cool models and also will hold its own against most lists.

[Rhaksha]

Rasputina is particularly hard to win with because of her poor maneuverability. Expect to take a good thrashing whilst you're learning!

Amen to that!

Silent Ones and Essence are auto includes, SnowStorm is very useful for certain strats and schemes and I prefer the use a proxied Gunsmith in place of the Convict Gunslinger as he gives me more options for killing, bwa ha haa.

Rhaksha

[Dezzo]

I am just starting to get into malifaux, and so far I have the rulebook and nothing else. I play lots of other tabletop wargames, thought it was time to give this one a shot. So my main focus is the models I want to paint, but I would like to make a list that would at least be competitive in games with my group (no tournaments). So my challenge/ question for you is can you make a decent list out of these models, or will it be nigh impossible to win with. I guess I'm aiming for 30-35 ss, because it seems that's what most people play.

Rasputina

Ice Golem

Saber Tooth

December Acolyte

Essence of Power

Silent One

I'd not include the Ice Golem and Cerberus and replace those with Snow Storm, two Desperate Mercenaries and one Convict Gunslinger.

The December Acolyte might see limited use too but it is not as "useless" as the previous two.

Oh... I notice there ain't any Gamins. You definitely need at least a blister of those.

Raspy has a high learning curve and can be downright frustrating to play against other factions like Neverborn and Guild. You would probably need to actively play a bucket-load of games before figuring out what makes her (and crew) so bad that you device ways to avoid playing into her disadvantages.

Adding on, Raspy is a master that is doomed to be out-activated. And her Ice Pillar spell is useless against crews that ignore terrain most of the time (again, Neverborn because most of them fly). Things like Obey will also cheese you off often when they take control of guys like Snow Storm and beat your own guys up with her.

I had Zoraida Obey Snow Storm and curb stomp my Raspy. I was lucky Raspy lived through that with 2 wounds intact... I still lost the game though I wiped out most of the Neverborn crew mainly because Zoraida kept Obeying Snow Storm to move away from the objectives I was trying to secure.

It was #@*&+-< annoying!

[osoi]

I'd not include the Ice Golem and Cerberus and replace those with Snow Storm, two Desperate Mercenaries and one Convict Gunslinger.

I will just point out one thing that you cannot do this as you are limited to a max of two mercs so its either the 2 desperate mercs or a desperate merc and convict gunlinger

[Dezzo]

I will just point out one thing that you cannot do this as you are limited to a max of two mercs so its either the 2 desperate mercs or a desperate merc and convict gunlinger

I know. =)

I should have mentioned that they are there to swap around as excess to the main crew.

Apologies if I confused anybody! xD

[loki13]

Thanks for all the responses! Too bad the golem and cerberus aren't that great in game, those were some of the models I liked the look of the most.

It seems like a lot of responses have been setting me up for losing a lot in the learning process (which is fine), but is that to say that Rasputina is not a good master to learn the game with? Would you recommend a more straight-forward master to start with?

[Ferb]

For me the easiest box set to pick up and play is the Ortegas. Fairly simple play style but still very powerful.

Ferb

[Calmdown]

Thanks for all the responses! Too bad the golem and cerberus aren't that great in game, those were some of the models I liked the look of the most.

It seems like a lot of responses have been setting me up for losing a lot in the learning process (which is fine), but is that to say that Rasputina is not a good master to learn the game with? Would you recommend a more straight-forward master to start with?

Malifaux is a hard game to learn at the very start regardless of crew (you'll see lots of threads like this dotted around the forum with people very frustrated at not winning much to begin with). So whatever you play, its going to be similar if you're playing against people who already know. I'd recommend sticking to her and just playing with her. You can play easier boxes but the easy masters often don't teach you quite as much and in some cases don't get much better as you do (eg the Ortegas, super easy but also pretty poor against experienced players).

My advice would be to play every game with the aim of keeping your guys alive and killing as many of theirs as possible, whilst denying them their objectives. Try to do your objectives if you can, but focus more on killing them and stopping them completing theirs. Rasputina's main trouble she has to start with is getting wiped off the board easily or not being able to get her nukes off. Once you learn the art of how to do this correctly, you can then focus on doing objectives at the same time.

As you get better with Rasputina you'll find that this is what you do; kill enemy models to deny them strategies and schemes, whilst completing your own schemes (which preferably involve killing or not moving much) in the meantime. You'll essentially play the first couple of turns looking to set up that one perfect nuke chain that cripples the enemy crew whilst avoiding being plastered yourself.

[Dezzo]

Thanks for all the responses! Too bad the golem and cerberus aren't that great in game, those were some of the models I liked the look of the most.

It seems like a lot of responses have been setting me up for losing a lot in the learning process (which is fine), but is that to say that Rasputina is not a good master to learn the game with? Would you recommend a more straight-forward master to start with?

Rasputina is NOT a bad master per say.

The problem is fine-tuning her crew AND learning how to use them to your best although the current game does favor various factions more than the Arcanists.

You have to understand that Rasputina is a "nuker"... and she is probably the best nuker (disputable because of Criid) but her biggest and main weakness is her crew and how you play them.

Other masters have an easier time (or slightly lower learning curve) because their minions / crew has more innate abilities built in, hence making them easier to play.

One of the things within the learning curve is the sequence of activation... do you activate Raspy first or Snow Storm? If you lose the initiative flip for turn two is it okay? Do you manoeuvre in such a way at the end of turn 1 that you can afford to lose the initiative flip for turn 2?

Rasputina in various ways is more sensitive to this as she is one of the masters that tend to get out-activated, is almost useless in melee but utterly devastating with range attacks.

Her damage output is unquestionably great. However, she lacks any defensive skills (counterspell, hard to hit, hard to wound, slow to die etc) to protect her when she gets into melee... she totally relies on her crew to protect her and many times, the Silent One.

[pepe5454]

Some things and tricks I have learned playing raspy lately that might or might not work for you. As with most crews having a few models to change around depending on objectives helps allot but in her case maybe a little more so because of the slow movement. Snow storm changes how the crew plays allot and adds some much needed mobility to the crew. Neat trick with that is have faster models move ahead then after your opponent has got some models within 14 inches activate the storm pushing your models forward twice then activate raspy and silent one and cast through your front runners it can catch fla off guard. Another thing is to have silent one give frozen heart to the enemy heavy hitters or high defense models the casting

Turn to ice on them your damage flips will get -- but you will probably hit everytime. Also allows models in mellee to escape with no disengaging strikes. Snow storm can help with that to by pulling your crew to him. He might look like a melee monster but I try to keep the storm out of melee as much as I can. I have the acolyte as well and though she is not a game changer she is a great model so I like to play her as well

[Necromorph]

To be fair, I don't think telling a new player that he/ she will get stomped.playing a new master is the best way to go. Sure she may not be the most competitive master out there, but she's not bad by any means. Her avatar is also pretty damn brutal for when you get book 3.

She will be a bit difficult to learn as she's kind of squishy and she has some tricks.to remember, but I wouldn't say she's as hard to learn as levi, colette, dreamer or kirai. Help when I first started playing I picked levi and while I was struggling to learn a new game system with a complicated master I had competitive players beat the crap out of me constantly...its a wonder I stuck with it, but I'm glad I did because I think I came out as a bit better player for.it.

[Calmdown]

To be fair, I don't think telling a new player that he/ she will get stomped.playing a new master is the best way to go. Sure she may not be the most competitive master out there, but she's not bad by any means. Her avatar is also pretty damn brutal for when you get book 3.

She will be a bit difficult to learn as she's kind of squishy and she has some tricks.to remember, but I wouldn't say she's as hard to learn as levi, colette, dreamer or kirai. Help when I first started playing I picked levi and while I was struggling to learn a new game system with a complicated master I had competitive players beat the crap out of me constantly...its a wonder I stuck with it, but I'm glad I did because I think I came out as a bit better player for.it.

Telling a player that he's not doing anything wrong particularly if he loses and not to lose heart is hardly a bad thing.

Also, Colette, Dreamer and Kirai are WAY easier to win with than Pandora. They may be more complex but they're also outright better with a lot less effort and have amazing maneuverability to help in completing objectives.

Leveticus....well, no new player should be playing Leveticus

[pepe5454]

In malifaux I don't think it's such a bad thing to start with a more complicated crew (maybe Levi is a bit much) as it gets you in the right thinking for the game. Makes you read the cards and really think about how best to get things done. I started with Justice but it wasn't long before I was wanting More options in play style.

[Necromorph]

Did I forget to put Pandora in that list? Huh, yeah i've always thought she was one of the hardest, brainfart ftw. Still though, just saying not to be too negative with new players or they'll get scared away, haha.

As for starting levi...yeah...it wasn't that fun at first. My primary opponents were a guild player with Sonnia and Perdita, and a Pandora player who also had levi...eek! Still, Levi remains my favorite master of all time, and I think those tough learning experiences forced me to learn and adapt more quickly, even if getting slaughtered my first 10 games wasn't all that entertaining.

[Buhallin]

Calmdown's our resident cynic - 98% of the models in the game completely suck as far as he's concerned, and he's happy to tell you why And NOBODY should play Leveticus - except maybe the winner of the big GenCon tournament

Raspy's speed can make her a challenge for certain strategies, but Snowstorm, her range extenders (Gamin/Golem/Silent One), and her board control go a long way towards evening that up. Don't be afraid to look away from the ice, either - I love the Sabretooth Cerberus, it's fast and makes a great deep strike unit.

I certainly disagree with him on the Ice Golem - it's a pretty tough model, and gets downright hard to crack if you pop him with December's Touch - most models will only get one hit against him a turn, and he can easily turn that one hit into a 1-point ding. He hands out Slow basically at will, he's not much slower than Rasputina herself, and hits very, very hard one he gets into melee. Pairing him with Snowstorm is expensive, but also makes him almost blindingly fast for such a huge model.

Your best bet is to remember what Raspy excels at - blowing stuff up and board control. You'll want to leverage her for strategies light Slaughter, opponent's Reconnoiter, Destroy the Evidence, etc. Anything that makes your opponent come to your side of the table will go a long way towards negating her speed disadvantage. Anything that requires high model counts or speed - Escape and Survive, your own Reconnoiter, Hold the Line - are probably bad. Keep them in a big icy fist and punch them in the face.

[loki13]

Alright, still think I'm going to start with Rasputina, and I will probably go with a few extra models to give me some more of the options suggested. Just a couple more questions before I place the order.

I don't have the Rising Powers book yet, could I get a quick rundown on the background/story of Snowstorm? I can't find that anywhere. Is the sorceress or the monster snowstorm?

I've been reading any tactica/threads on Rasputina I can find, and I see mentions of "crazy cat" lists with hoarcat prides and the cerberus. I know these aren't optimal, but anybody ever run them just for fun? Have any success or fun stories about using them?

Thanks again for all the replies.

[Buhallin]

I don't have the Rising Powers book yet, could I get a quick rundown on the background/story of Snowstorm? I can't find that anywhere. Is the sorceress or the monster snowstorm?

Basically, the Silent Ones are the priestesses of the Cult of December. There was a prophecy that the chosen of December would be a woman, and the priests decided to head that off a bit by cutting out all their tongues. Didn't work so well for them in the end, since Rasputina came from outside.

Snow is a Silent One, who has been bonded with the spirit (Storm). In a way, she's sort of a Silent One Avatar.

As for the crazy cat lady lists... People talk about them a lot, but I'm not sure how often they actually get run. I play with the Cerberus regularly, but have never liked the Hoarcats so never picked them up.

[Ratt]

I'm particularly fond of Rasputina, and for some Strategies the Sabretooth is a good investment. Likewise, with the right list, an Ice Golem can also be good. I'd grab Snow Storm as well, becuase that does significantly increase the mobility of Rapsutina's crew. For example, prior to snow storm, my Ice Golem stuggled to enter the opposing half of the board. Since Snow storm, he usually ends his first turn in the opposing half...

[Wodschow]

Hmm.. Back when all we had was Book1 the Cerberus found its way into many a Rasputina list, simply because it was one of the fastest options for her and she really needs that speed to compete in some of the strategies, as she is herself quite abysmally slow..

The Cerberus has of course retained it's speed through to this day and as such is still a viable option, we however have been given multiple altenatives in Rising Powers.

Personally I'm not that fond of the Cerberus, mainly because it'll drain Rasputinas :masks's to move its maximum distance, which translates directly into her Overpowering her curses less often.. As such if I feel the need for speed I'd rather take the Mechanical Rider (proxied as it is currently unreleased), the Coryphée (a substantially more expensive alternative as you'll want two of them 99% of the time) or even Von Schill (who is quite fast, but not as fast as the others) - it all depends on the strategies, the board, the opponent and most importantly my mood whether I bring any fast models at all and which ones they are in case I do.

I have also seen some funkier suggestions such as the Razorspine or the Steamborg (at least back when he could trigger Knock Back on friendly models), not sure if I'd recommend any of them, it's more to emphasize that you should try to find what works for you.

One point of advice is to put some extra thought into list building - strategies, board, enemy are all important factors. At least universal lists seldomly seems to work for me.

Finally.. The only reason I think some people used to play a crazy-cat-lady-list is that way back in time (before Malifaux), Rasputina was supplied with a Hoarcat as a familiar.. From a playing perspective it is beyond me why anyone would field such a list.. =x

[loki13]

Alright, about to put an order together for this crew, just had one more question. I've read a couple threads on how to model ice pillars, and there are some great ideas. I was just curious how many I should make, what is a reasonable number of pillars that could be on the table over the course of a game?

[Dezzo]

minimum 6 pairs.

maximum 10 pairs.

[Adran]

6 pairs is casting it every turn and your opponent not destroying any.

The game can last longer than 6 turns, but there does reach a point when you have run out of spots on the board to place the pillars.

I'm not a great Rasputina player, but I've never got more than 4 pairs on the board during the game. They might be related statements I don't know.

[Buhallin]

Concur with Adran. 4 is pretty reasonable. 6 is pretty good coverage. 10 is overkill.