Mindless Zombies as targets

[Vaff]

Just curious as to who flips for Mindless zombies as technically they are neutral models. I've always flipped for them, but I'm just curious where in the rules it talks about that.

[DangerousBeans]

Whoever's activating them.

[Chipacabra]

And if no one is activating them? Who handles their resist flips and so on?

[Vaff]

And if no one is activating them? Who handles their resist flips and so on?

This.

I haven't seen anything for it in the rulebook. It's kind of lame that I could burn a red joker on something that I don't even have control over at the moment. I guess the opposite could be said for the black one, but still. I just want some clarification.

[Sliver Chocobo]

And if no one is activating them? Who handles their resist flips and so on?

Who Evers not targeting them, I think

[DangerousBeans]

And if no one is activating them? Who handles their resist flips and so on?

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so rude there. I think I was still half asleep when I posted! I always played the person not attacking the zombie would flip for resist/defence. I suppose if there was no attacker as such then duty would fall to the Nico player.

[Iamwyrd]

Both players take turns activating them. Who ever is activating the flips both their attack and resist duels. Mindless zombies must be activated at the end if the turn by both players if there is no nicodem in range.

[edonil]

Both players take turns activating them. Who ever is activating the flips both their attack and resist duels. Mindless zombies must be activated at the end if the turn by both players if there is no nicodem in range.

Right, that makes sense...but what if I'm attacking them during the game? I think another way to look at this question is this: Who handles defense and resistance flips for neutral models when they are being attacked? I know the story encounters have some other neutral models, and it just never seems to get defined as to what happens if those models aren't active.

[Iamwyrd]

Ah I get it now, then how we do it is the opposing player flips for it.

So if you attack the neutral mindless zombie then your opponent flips its resist.

But I guess it could just be a house rule of ours as well.

[Chipacabra]

What if there are more than two players? Who is the opposing player?

[Vaff]

I saw a couple RMs viewing the thread, but no responses. Is this being discussed in a backroom chat somewhere?

I've been house ruling them that way myself, but I want something a little more concrete.

[Iamwyrd]

Not sure on multiple players. I have a feeling if marshals were looking then it will get ruled that if you attack them you flip for everything now that I think about it. Just because its neutral and if you really want it dead, you flip for everything.

[marshimartian]

Bump!?

[Q'iq'el]

OMG, as long as I play Nicodem I've never realized this. I've obviously been playing the MZ as neutral all the time, but all the flips were handled by Nicodem's side.

This is really important in only one case though - if you want to affect them with something and you want them to cheat low (as they can't choose to fail Rst:WP the way friendly models can). If it is the opponent handling the Resist Duel, obviously he won't be so nice as to cheat down.

Having said that, I can't think of such situation. If they get caught up in Decay, they'll take damage from the anyway (without any chance to resist), when they are Sacrificed to cancel attack on Nicodem or as a Corpse Counter for Reanimate, they don't get a Resist at all... And there's little reason to kill them, if you are on Nicodem's side (perhaps if you want Bête to come out, but even then you can achieve the same by Reanimating something and using them as a Corpse Counter and that is generally more beneficial).

Edited September 18, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Headcase2]

I think you can't cheat for neutral models. Player A attacks a zombie, player B makes the resist/defense flips and that's that for the zombie. I also don't have them make disengaging strikes, but I think that pne could go either way.

[Q'iq'el]

I think you can't cheat for neutral models. Player A attacks a zombie, player B makes the resist/defense flips and that's that for the zombie. I also don't have them make disengaging strikes, but I think that pne could go either way.

You mean, regardless of which player it is, you cannot cheat? Hmm. This is really a conjecture, isn't it? I can't find anything about that in the rulebook. Certainly the basic rules for Cheating Fate (Page 24, bottom half) do not restrict it to own crew only and say "all models can cheat fate" instead, as if it was a model-based ability.

Nicodem's own Zombie Control does restrict how they can cheat fate (he needs to discard additional Control Card to be able to cheat fate with them), but that comes into play only when the MZ are under his control.

I'd also assume that you'd have to make Disengaging Strikes (analogically, by the opponent of the player who tries to move), which could be a real nuisance, especially for Nicodem and his crew (as nothing seems to make them immune to it).

It's also worth noting, that there are two relevant rules on MZ - the Mindless and the Neutral. Nicodem's Zombie Control deals with both, but it is really the Neutral rule which makes MZ not belong to any crew. The Rules Manual doesn't provide any indication of how to play such a model and so I assume you have to play as if it belonged to a non-player crew both with an ability to cheat (whoever controls it) and Disengaging Strikes.

Mindless merely regulates how to move the MZ if they are outside of Zombie Control's range, so it doesn't provide answers to any of our problems either.

I suppose it is natural to assume the other player should flip for the Zombie, but there's really no indication this is the right approach either, is there?

Edited September 18, 2011 by Q'iq'el