Iamwyrd Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 So I believe this has been done before, but lets do it again. Just for fun. Bishop 10ss: Pros: Good cb Decent df (can make excellent at df 8) Butt load of triggers Decent amount of wounds (1) charge Cons: Horrible damage output Costs way too much ss wise 2 amazing (0) actions but can only do 1 Etc. Ways to fix him to see more play: Lower ss cost Increase damage alittle Give instinctual So a good Bishop would be IMHO: 7-8 ss With instinctual With 2/3/5 damage on fist. Fluff wise I feel Bishop should have instinctual as he was a cage fighter and had to raise his instincts to become aware of his surroundings. Also because he escaped imprisonment so he is always on the run. Technically. So how do you all feel about him in his current state and how would you change him? I feel that yes this is an old topic because he is from book one and is finished,# but I love his model, but can't find it in me to pay 10ss for what he does. Sorry if this is old I just like to think creatively on models that I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 yes we all agree his a hefty 10/11 ss to be paying a 2 ss drop and +1 on weak damage would probably swing it for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneInABilliam Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Personally i like him the way he is, sure I wish he was alittle cheaper but for what he can do to people I will pay 10 ss. His damage is alittle low but when you add in a double crit strike with plus Study Opponent and a 1ap charge he ends up getting the job done (2/4/6 dmg with an 8 cb and +2 twist!). Plus if you give him the ram to get crit strike off then you have a chance to riposte. Also he can paralyze, ignore hard to wound and armor. In my opinion he is worth the 10 ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I agree, but if you drop 2 ss he would be an excellent minion, and would see a alot more play. I personally love his model, and do play him occasionally with kirai, cause why not make him a spirit. But even then I wish his damage was alittle better cause +1 dmg would make him like stern said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratt Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I think he's good the way he is, in fact I plan on picking one up on the weekend - along with a couple of other Mercs... the way I'm ending up I might as well pick up the Vicki start box as well, just so I can use all these Mercs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 At 10ss he is situational, I think it comes down to does he suit you strategy or schemes, there will be times where is is definately worth his 10ss and as I said elsewhere I will be trying him out to see how to make him work best. If he had instinctual I think he would be worth 10ss everytime, my only concern is when you compare him to a model like Jack Daw who is a game changer, in addition the Outcasts (mercs especially) at the moment suffer from having a lot of high ss cost models so you really need to pick and choose who you take to fill that expensive point slot. Suffice to say I do see potential and will be using this thread to give in game feedback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigalPunk Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I sometimes take him in my Von Schill list, and I always remember later on that he never does anything for me ever. I kick myself every time for not taking Taelor instead. It might just be a play style or it might be I suck with him, but I never feel like he was a good investment. I think if you look at other 10 ss models they give you more bang for your buck. I don't think I rarely ever remember to cast study opponent, so that probably does not help, but even so I am never really impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 @punk: I agree, when I bring him he seems to under perform for me. When I could bring Jack Daw instead. But I luv bishops model where I can live without Jack Daws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I agree, when I bring him he seems to under perform for me. When I could bring Jack Daw instead. But I luv bishops model where I can live without Jack Daws. I see everyone shares my view on him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I think the problem with most people is they expect him to do damage. I believe if you use him to def 8 and paralyze something he makes a great tank to shut down a model or two you don't want to deal with at that moment while your viks/vonschill blast some other targets down. Also he is a great model to use for grabbing objectives and such due to his wound profile and defenses. I believe he just doesn't get used in the right sense by the majority of people who then comment on him being worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigalPunk Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I guess my main problem is he is 10ss so if he is locking something down, he is probably not making his points back, do to the lack of models in that range. There is a chance he could snag a high end model or a master, but for 10ss it seems overly situational. I guess you could sit him on an objective, but again his price makes it seem like a bit of a waste to just have him camp somewhere. If you win I guess it does not matter how you spend and use your points, it just does not look good on paper in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderChicken Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 I believe he just doesn't get used in the right sense by the majority of people who then comment on him being worthless. Totally agree. Use the right tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Never said he was worthless. Just expensive ss wise. 10ss is quite a bit. Especially if your playing von shcill I would bring 2 more freigkorpmen instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 well bishop and von schill is one expensive duo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted July 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 Ya cause we normally play 35ss at my lgs And those two alone are more than half of that for 2 models. I would just go straight Von schill anyways cause he's cool by himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stern Posted July 27, 2011 Report Share Posted July 27, 2011 yea. I am thinking of using bishop in my Lady J and Lucius list but that leaves me with little else... Be good fun tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 (edited) I guess my main problem is he is 10ss so if he is locking something down, he is probably not making his points back, do to the lack of models in that range. There is a chance he could snag a high end model or a master, but for 10ss it seems overly situational. I guess you could sit him on an objective, but again his price makes it seem like a bit of a waste to just have him camp somewhere. If you win I guess it does not matter how you spend and use your points, it just does not look good on paper in my opinion. I might be a little biased due to playing a colette crew with the duet. But I firmly believe any model that costs 9 or more points must be taken but used accordingly. Examples being jack daw, duet, lelu liluto (neverborne duet), copellius, ashes and dust, lucious, snowstorm and such. Not meaning if you take any of the above you are forced to playing a certain way but you must capitalize on there strengths in relationship to what they bring to their crews or you generally will feel underwhelmed at their cost/effect. I personally see bishop most like lucious in that he is a support model. His role is complimentry to support the things you are taking (assuming that he is in a student, viks, von schill, libby, ronin style list) he is the model that you send at the 3rd or forth model you intend to kill to tie down while viks, von schill take out the first and second kill priority target. Or in objective style mission (treasure hunt and the like) if you don't want to "waste" a ss user carrying the object or go take a zone and such he is without question the best in the terms of a defensible minion. The one thing that I sometimes get caught up in that I believe punk mentioned is the 40k mentality of you must make your points back certain models bishop being one of them with have a nightmare of a time "making it back" due to not being a damage base offensive model but generally with the exception of a few ss using masters with obscene damage range (u know viks, lady j, lilith, lcb, dita) it will take a absolute metric ton of activations from a high number of minions (like atleast 3-4) to bring him down. Edited July 28, 2011 by Odin1981 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratt Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well said about the making it back there Odin. One of the first things I realised about this game when I started playing is that you could potentially lose all of your models, to your opponent losing none and still end up 8-0 winner. In this game, models don't have to 'make their SS back' they have to combine their efforts to achieve the victory conditions. If a model like Bishop can contribute, that's just awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigalPunk Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Well said about the making it back there Odin. One of the first things I realised about this game when I started playing is that you could potentially lose all of your models, to your opponent losing none and still end up 8-0 winner. In this game, models don't have to 'make their SS back' they have to combine their efforts to achieve the victory conditions. If a model like Bishop can contribute, that's just awesome. In theory this is true, in practice it is not likely to happen that way. I agree that not every model needs to make their points back to be effective, but I also think if every model did the chances of you have one that match go up incredibly. Personally I just think I am just as likely to kill something with Taelor or Johan then I am to tie it down with Bishop. I personally think dead is better. If people do manage to get their moneys worth with him, then I am impressed, but honestly I am happy for them. I just think that the soul stones could be better spent. Just as a comparative Von Schill is one SS less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Totally agree. Use the right tool for the job. Well he is a merc afterall, why on earth would you hire a specialist if his/her skill set has nothing to contribute..? I understand where people are coming from though, its hard to break the warhammer and 40k habits if Youv played it for so long.. just wish my bayou crew had the option.. well kinda.. SS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescale Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I agree with the above posts that he makes an excellent damage/time sink and can be used on objectives situationally, but compared to other Outcast models I really feel that he should cost 9, not 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Also, and this was used against me last night, in heavy terrain boards(so a good Mali board) his toss trigger is horrible! I had a wood with 3 gremlins in, making use of the terrain against the ortega's.. in charged bishop and threw them out, straight into firing lines.. was just lucky the attack flips were naff.. SS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarel Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 I tried using him quite a bit when I got the Vik's set (on release, so not much else out there), but there is never a time when you wouldn't rather have Hamelin, Taelor or Misaki to do what you want to get done. That's not to say he has no use, he does (1AP Charge and all those lovely triggers is great, as is the fact that he can survive Pandora's attentions quite well), but not at his current cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProdigalPunk Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Also, and this was used against me last night, in heavy terrain boards(so a good Mali board) his toss trigger is horrible! I had a wood with 3 gremlins in, making use of the terrain against the ortega's.. in charged bishop and threw them out, straight into firing lines.. was just lucky the attack flips were naff.. SS! This is sort of my point, Tealor would have just smashed them to death with her hammer leaving the firing lines free to fire on something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shank Seamus! Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well taelor can't one hit any of the la croix's and after her first damaging strike, wouldn't be in melee range for a follow up.. unless she got to activate first, and I mean the first activation of the turn.. due to squee.. My point is that yes he's expensive the flexibility he has is worth it, SS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.