Bored of Kidnap yet?

[Ratty]

stick it in a sleeve and you can write on it with a whiteboard marker your target.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Q is right. Kidnap isn't so much the problem, it's that lists that you know are setup to purposely sacrifice their own models the exact same way every game is even more predictable than kidnap.

When someone brings McM and some dogs I know the first action McM is going to do is slingshot and kill the dog so he can have enough body parts for a model that costs way more than a dog. Predictable of every McM player I have seen.

I don't use kidnap every time, but blaming players for being predictable when you yourself are even more predictable seems kind of funny to me.

How would you guys like your opponent telling you to not kill your own dogs for body parts? Would you listen or tell him it is part of the design of the game that helps keep things in balance.

Edit: I suggest that the key to fixing this annoyance is in you not playing the same crew with the same tactic. In war if you are predictable you will surely lose.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer

[alienated one]

I suggest that the key to fixing this annoyance is in you not playing the same crew with the same tactic. In war if you are predictable you will surely lose.

I guess my main complaint is no matter what crew I bring (I play Guild, Outcasts and Ressers), the Neverborn player always takes Kidnap. I've even asked some of the Neverborn players and they admit that its an easy scheme to pull off, so they take it, regardless of faction. Target 3 "weak" models in your opponents crew, focus on those 3....win.

[AdrianMills]

Kidnap on its own it won't get you the win surely. It is only a quarter of the maximum VP's for a scrap, yes it can be easy to pull off against certain crews but it can't be the guaranteed win.

[alienated one]

Kidnap on its own it won't get you the win surely. It is only a quarter of the maximum VP's for a scrap, yes it can be easy to pull off against certain crews but it can't be the guaranteed win.

I guess I misspoke when I said win. i meant 2 easy points. I know its not going to win you the game, but its an easy thing to do to help you win the game.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Well if your Neverborn player is sticking to Kidnap like that it does seem kind of boring. Then again there are Arcanists that always take sabotage and guild players that always take kill protege. I myself like to pick my schemes based on my crew and my opponent's crew but still mix it up to keep my opponent guessing.

More fun to see them say "you played what?" after I get my full 8vp.

[Q'iq'el]

There are people out there who can't be bothered to switch their Schemes and don't feel bored by doing the same thing every single time. There's not much you can do about it - if you enforce Scheme switch for every game, you may affect game balance for the people who actually choose their Schemes carefully and if you don't, you have to put up with some boredom.

One thing isn't true though - Kidnap is not easy points against crew that doesn't sacrifice or throw away models. If you bring an elite crew with reasonable survivability, like Ortegas or Viktorias, then the Neverborn player has to work for the kills. Not only that, he has to confront you even though his Strategy would perhaps favor avoidance over direct confrontation with an elite crew. In other words, there are Schemes which would make these 2VPs even easier* and he's hurting himself by picking Kidnap in such a match-up.

*Kill Protége, Grudge or Frame for Murder are far easier to pull off against Elite crews, even if you announce them (and that's assuming you still want to go for the direct confrontation).

Edited July 9, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Murphy'sLawyer]

There are people out there who can't be bothered to switch their Schemes and don't feel bored by doing the same thing every single time. There's not much you can do about it - if you enforce Scheme switch for every game, you may affect game balance for people who actually choose their Schemes carefully and if you don't, you have to put up with some boredom.

One thing isn't true though - Kidnap is not easy points against crew that doesn't sacrifice or throw away models. If you bring an elite crew with reasonable survivability, like Ortegas or Viktorias, then the Neverborn player has to work for the kills. Not only that, he has to confront you even though his Strategy would perhaps favor avoidance over direct confrontation with an elite crew. In other words, there are Schemes which would make these 2VPs even easier* and he's hurting himself by picking Kidnap in such a match-up.

*Kill Protége, Grudge or Frame for Murder are far easier to pull off against Elite crews, even if you announce them.

Wait?

There are people out there who can't be bothered to switch their Schemes and don't feel bored by doing the same thing every single time. There's not much you can do about it - if you enforce Scheme switch for every game, you may affect game balance for the people who actually choose their Schemes carefully and if you don't, you have to put up with some boredom.

One thing isn't true though - Kidnap is not easy points against crew that doesn't sacrifice or throw away models. If you bring an elite crew with reasonable survivability, like Ortegas or Viktorias, then the Neverborn player has to work for the kills. Not only that, he has to confront you even though his Strategy would perhaps favor avoidance over direct confrontation with an elite crew. In other words, there are Schemes which would make these 2VPs even easier* and he's hurting himself by picking Kidnap in such a match-up.

*Kill Protége, Grudge or Frame for Murder are far easier to pull off against Elite crews, even if you announce them (and that's assuming you still want to go for the direct confrontation).

I see a redundancy. Again, we are on the same page here. I know some list I have played against that kidnap would be the worst scheme to pick. But like you said, some players just can't be bothered to expand their abilities.

And I say again, predictability will bring defeat. If you know a player uses the same schemes everytime build a list and take schemes that counters his and soon he will be forced to change his ways.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer

[Necromorph]

Bingo, Murphy.

There are some folks at the LGC who are the standard "Bodyguard Holdout" types, and I love taking Kirai or Hamelin and just outactivating them, and then taking Breakthrough. So on the last turn, when they are activated out, I can just stroll one of my quick models right into the deployment zone and finish the game by saying... "8-6".

[Vaff]

Why was this thing ressurected!?!?!

Not sure if you're jabbing me directly with the whole "I must be bad because I run dogs with McM" or something. I guess the only way to play him would be to kill your own dogs and summon things.... Not like they could be useful with Sebastian, in a pack, or as rocket bombs with a nurse.

Now, I've honestly resolved the situation with my friend. He doesn't use the crutch of Kidnap in casual play every game... and I've adapted my play... turning me into Mr. Paranoid every game, and forcing me to run heavier units in favor of cheap ones to throw off kidnap attempts.

Maybe I'm biased.... but Currently 9/10 games I play are against neverborn and it makes me sad I even spent money on dogs.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Not jabbing you about the sacrificing dog trick, but it is a very well known trick that is taught to every McM player by other Ressers.(If you look at the posts about new McM here you will even see that almost everytime someone pipes in to mention this trick.)

But if you read my post you will see that I also mentioned this trick is also a built in part of the Resser mechanics and is ment to be used as a strategy. (Just not in those words) But like all strategies predictability is a bad thing.

Also looking at the time between the posts it is not really a resurrected thread. If it is still close to the top of the first page it is fine to respond to a post.

All and all glad you and your freind got it worked out. That said, this thread has expanded and us seasoned players who have experienced these things and found ways to deal with it are just piping in to try to help. Give us a little faith, we are not picking on you at all, but this forum is known for its experienced players giving advice. Even if we don't always agree.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Murphy'sLawyer

[Hookers]

also its in the ressurectionists section.

you've been warned :aseamus

[Vaff]

also its in the ressurectionists section.

You've been warned :aseamus

+1