tadaka Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 After playing with hoffman for a bit I have come to love playing with him. He does a lot of fun stuff. I have had 0 luck gettting any worthwile results from the hunter so I am curious if any one else has had luck with them. For the most part I find they die quickly and the total lack of any sort of 3rd action has put them on the back burner for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 That is a tough title to parse. Anyway, the Hunter works well as a detachable unit to the otherwise conjoined robot Voltron that C. Hoffman pilots. I like using two. Warning though, they are no match for a Coryphee Duet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I haven't had the chance to try it out yet, and I've only played a few games so far, but on paper at least there are a few interesting points about the Hunter: 1) Cost - it can do some of the things that a PeaceKeeper can do, but for 2/3 of the cost (notably Flurry, Drag and Slow) - It isn't as accurate or as powerful as the PeaceKeeper, but by using it to drag targets into range for the more powerful constructs, it seems to be fairly useful. 2) Flexibility - With Hoffman, the PeaceKeeper can ignore its negative abilities, which makes it perform better than its 9ss cost indicates, but it means it will need to stay close to Hoffman pretty much all game. The Hunter doesn't need to stay close, has the Shadow ability (which needs to be used carefully, but if used well can set it up for easy Flurry's or take advantage of Ambush). Everything about Hoffman's rules indicates bunching up your constructs around him, but this won't always be possible in every game depending on strategies and schemes, so having a model that can go down a flank (and move quicker than its Wk suggests) could be very useful... 3) Arrest strikes me as a pretty nifty spell - needs fairly specific cards to cast it, but it isn't the kind of spell your opponent can really afford to let you get off on a melee model... 4) There is quite a lot of synergy between some of its abilities - use shadow one turn to get into position and the take advantage of winning initiative the next turn by inflicting slow on a target before it activates and getting the bonus flips from Ambush... Ultimately though, its probably the most forgettable of Guild constructs available and I probably wouldn't hesitate to drop it if I needed to make some space in the list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 That's an interesting view fear. Perhaps thats my issue with it there are just more intresting options and so I cant bring myself to take them over some thing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 That's the thing going against it at the moment - its the first thing you drop in a Hoffman list most pf the time. Becuase you need to focus so much on what will be directly surrounding Hoffman, outlying stuff like the Hunter normally gets left behind. I find for one more stone the Guardian contributes more to the list. By the time you have stones to fit it in (in Brawls), you ideally want to be packing another Peacekeeper. Even with Ambush, I find its damage output to be a little underwhelming. The Guardian packs a little less punch but is a tad more reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Yeah, there's certainly no "wow" factor to it... The PeaceKeeper and Ryle are just crazy powerful with Hoffman, the Guardian is very useful for helping to keep Hoffman safe (and the Machine Puppet / Critical Strike / Shield miss ability apparently works so you can cheat a low Ram in and still deal 3 damage...) and the Watcher must be one of the best 3ss models in the game (even if all it does is lets you look at cards)... And the Hunter... feels like I can live without it. I'm going to try it for some of the things I suggested above, but I need those other constructs much more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted April 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Unfortunately I find the watcher in the same boat. I only take him when I have 3 points left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtsloth Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I like the watcher for objective grabbing. 3 stones for Wk 7 and flight w/out insignificant makes him a regular addition even in my non-Hoffman Guild lists for securing VP's - the deck sorting and cover removal are a bonus. As to the original point - I haven't played the hunter because Ryle and the Peacekeeper both seem better on-paper and better suited to Hoffman's rules/style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 (edited) When writing Hoffman lists (I'll be getting him eventually) the Hunter always tends to be a cheaper version of the Peacekeeper until I have enough points replace him with the real thing in. In larger games (35SS plus) there's almost always something else I'd rather fit in. His speed and tendency to stay independent from the Hoff-ball is probably his best advantage. As per his name, he's probably best used to hunt down more isolated elements of your opponents crew and guard/claim wayward objectives where unlike a Watcher, he can put up a genuine fight. Edited April 23, 2011 by Rathnard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Unfortunately I find the watcher in the same boat. I only take him when I have 3 points left over. I think 1 Watcher is a pretty good choice for all Guild lists going forward - - A cheap, significant, Wk 7 model for grabbing out of the way objectives. - Card manipulation abilities give the rest of your list a better chance of getting the cards you need without having to cheat. - For Hoffman, they make a great target for Machine Puppet on the early turns where their 16" range can reach out and put 1-3 damage on a target before its in range of anything else... - Although it isn't worth building your strategy around denying your opponent special deployment abilities (because there aren't enough of them out there) its a bonus when you get to deny them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotesla Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 what do people think about using 2 hunters in a lady force to drag things into range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 The Hunter also has another use. End game, its a good, mobile source of scrap for exploding. Position it near the enemy, kill it with Controlled Detonation, and follow up with Detonate Scrap. Five damage from four separate sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Are you talking about a ramos hoffman brawl for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Are you talking about a ramos hoffman brawl for that? Nope. I'm talking about Mobile Toolkit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Ah got ya. Did not realize it had that ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Ah got ya. Did not realize it had that ability. Yep, you can either have it do the deed, or have Hoffman Assimilate it off him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 what do people think about using 2 hunters in a lady force to drag things into range? Well in any list you'd be wanting to use a PeaceKeeper to Drag models, the Hunter can do it for less. Drag is a pretty nice ability really, and I can see a Lady Justice list benefiting from it since it means she's less likely to over extend herself... I hadn't thought of that mobile bomb trick with the tool kit - that's a pretty nasty end game move (or even if the Hunter gets into trouble and looks like its going down while multiple enemies are around)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Got to keep in mine the Hunter's Chain Spear is only Cb4. It'll struggle to hit the wide side of a barn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Got to keep in mine the Hunter's Chain Spear is only Cb4. It'll struggle to hit the wide side of a barn. Not if its targeting something that hasn't activated yet - the Positive flip makes it much more likely to hit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 I think 1 Watcher is a pretty good choice for all Guild lists going forward - - A cheap, significant, Wk 7 model for grabbing out of the way objectives. - Card manipulation abilities give the rest of your list a better chance of getting the cards you need without having to cheat. - For Hoffman, they make a great target for Machine Puppet on the early turns where their 16" range can reach out and put 1-3 damage on a target before its in range of anything else... - Although it isn't worth building your strategy around denying your opponent special deployment abilities (because there aren't enough of them out there) its a bonus when you get to deny them... Going back to the Watcher for a second - I've remembered another reason I like them with Hoffman - he can Assimilate Slow to Die from them and keep himself going with Soul Stone Healing flips - very useful if you're up against lots of hard hitting enemies that can ignore Armor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courtsloth Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Going back to the Watcher for a second - I've remembered another reason I like them with Hoffman - he can Assimilate Slow to Die from them and keep himself going with Soul Stone Healing flips - very useful if you're up against lots of hard hitting enemies that can ignore Armor... That is a dirty trick. I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoboStele Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Going back to the Watcher for a second - I've remembered another reason I like them with Hoffman - he can Assimilate Slow to Die from them and keep himself going with Soul Stone Healing flips - very useful if you're up against lots of hard hitting enemies that can ignore Armor... Hehehe, yep, I've used that one myself a few times. When I played Hoffman over the weekend, we ran 35 SS and I basically played the Box set plus Ryle and the Peacekeeper. Once the Mechanical Attendant is available though, I think I'll almost certainly run it and a 2nd Watcher instead of the Hunter. The Hunter wasn't bad, but I just don't know how to fully utilize it yet I guess. Shadow feels like it's cool, but will allow the Hunter to get way too far away from the rest of your pieces. Ambush is obviously cool, especially if you're using Machine Puppet through the Hunter on an unactivated model. But otherwise, I mostly see the Hunter as a piece to tie-up an opponent, or just to distract something long enough to get your other pieces in place. You certainly can't let it go toe-to-toe with anything that has a high Cb or Use Soulstone, as it will just get murdered. And I agree, that I would almost universally rather have the extra Guardian than the Hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoeRender Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 I used the hunter for the first time over the weekend and found he is just 2 fragile . I love the model so much and will use it in larger games , But for 35ss and below it takes a back seat to the peacekeeper . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLord Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 You can read about my first game with Hoffman (and a Hunter) here: http://www.wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20666 Although the Hunter was quite successful in its role as an independent flanker, taking advantage of Ambush, it did occur to me after the game, that since it didn't go near Hoffman all game, it could have been replaced by pretty much any other independent model available to the Guild... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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