Bozzy Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Heya been playing zoraida a lot and plan on tweaking my list adding collodi lemme know watcha think. Zoraida Doppleganger Killjoy Collodi 3 marrionettes The summoning really helps jack up model count quite fast..and the speed for the army is unmatched..looking for any advice one might have..usually aim for tourney/competative lists.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nu Fenix Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Whilst you have speed, I worry that you lack staying power. Killjoy is your only big model, but has the risk of attacking your own models later, plus won't start on the board. In addition, what are you planning to bring Killjoy on with? Marionette? That will slow down Collodi and make him less useful. Or with a voodoo doll after it has used Magical Extension to save your own models? Although this brings the risk of being near Zoraida. What do you feel are the weaknesses in your list, and how do you plan to overcome them? What will you do against a swarm list? Melee list? Ranged list? Speed list? I know answering a question with more questions isn't what you were hoping for, but it allows us all to get more of a mindset behind your list & playstyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Well killjoy gets summoned with wicked dolls.. Between zoraida dopple and collodi thier will be lotsa models..sort of a death by a thousand cuts style..im normally a tourny pandora player.. so this style I'm used to....Zoraida not allowing things too cheat obeys as well as lotsa fast dolls dishing out poison.. Between wikids marionettes moving wherever they need to be thier can be a ton of attacks dished out.. In theory stitched togethers would fit but they are just to slow and would serve better in a collodi dreamer list.. No ral problems I see yet ... High wound models could be a problem but zoraida obeying things should help with that a lil...blast damage would suck but id play it differently..hopefully tie them up with killjoy.. Hmm will fill in more as it comes to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nu Fenix Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Ah yes, I had forgotten about Wicked Dolls. I haven't tested them yet, which is why I forgot about them. I am typing this from my phone, so I cannot remember if you can Obey Killjoy. If so, I imagine he will be your primary target, unless the enemy provide something better. Will this be the first time you have tried these, as you normally use Pandora? Or is this tweaking things you have already tested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Have been playing zoraida a lot lately.. Just adding in collodi....wicked dolls have ability to tele strait to collodi or back to zoraida..very mobile..can use zoraida at worst as a doll factory.if nothing else to do..or dopple it... Killjoy can be obeyed and will be primary most of the time... The list is quite candle of dumping a kill joy into thier deployment zone on turn one with them having no further activations.... Not saying its always a good idea..but itbis a great delivery system and by far one of the most mobile armys around.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Just to make it clear, Doppleganger cannot summon anything. Reason being: (0) Mimic: Target a model within 8” and LoS and chooses 1 effect. This lasts until the End Closing Phase. Effects that reference a model by name cannot be Mimicked. and (2) Create Voodoo Doll: Summon 1 Voodoo Doll Totem. Immediately sacrifice any other Voodoo Doll Totems connected to this model. Refers to the Voodoo Dolls' name three times. Other than that I think I'd prefer to start with 4 Marionettes with Collodi, having to scavenge and then summon takes away alot of momentum I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 To add to Wodschows post above, Doppleganger can't teleport either for the same reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadArcanist Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Wicked Doll has a nice little ability called A Wicked Doll: This Model may be summoned with Create Voodoo Doll. When summoning this model, its controller does not need to sacrifice other Voodoo Dolls or Wicked Dolls in play. plus you would be using Mimic Talent, since summoning a Voodoo Doll isn't a spell. Thus making the Doppelganger perfectly capable of being a Doll Factory. And i believe with the restriction it means that the model that is being targeting, such as Eternal, or other related talents can't be copied. That one I'm not so sure on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 plus you would be using Mimic Talent, since summoning a Voodoo Doll isn't a spell. Thus making the Doppelganger perfectly capable of being a Doll Factory. As Wodschow pointed out above, the wording says an "effect" which references a model by name. The Doppleganger cannot copy Summon Voodoo Doll or Wicked Doll as both reference the doll by name. This has been discussed many times, including by me arguing the same argument you're making Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 Still prefer the dopple thier to copy collodis abilities making all the dolls fast mellee experts...her speed comes from the raven ability not teleport...and extra obey is always nice utility.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.blas Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 In my list I go Zoraida Doppleganger Collodi 4x Marionette Primordial Magic Taelor This list is at 35 exactly. If I want shooting instead of the melee boost I sub in Convict for Taelor, and add in a Bayou Gremlin, or take the soul stones. The thing to remember is, on the Doppleganger always (if in range) copy the Totem's magical extension. This allows you to get a use soulstone on say Zoraida's obey, or Collodi's Breath Life/Dissasemble. For the Dissasemble/Obey, getting that extra flip is crucial if you're going up on something that you just dont want resisted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Thiers some of the ideas I was looking for =)..convict I have ran in all my zoraida no collodi lists....so definitly a route to consider if the killjoy under performs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticBoy Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 This is similar to my thinking. I have started with Collodi so my initial options are much more limited. But luckily Collodi is bananas awesome. The dolls have some significant weaknesses (like dieing from one hit normally) but Collodi makes this machine well oiled and fast. The next step for me, in an escalation play right now, is adding in Zoraida. So my normal list is Collodi, 3 Marionettes, 3 Wicked Dolls, and 2 Stitched. I will be moving up to: Zoraida Voodoo Doll Collodi 4 Marionettes 3 Wicked Dolls 2 Stitched I thought about killjoy later. I can't see using him in less than 40 points. He is just so damn expensive and frankly not that frightening because he doesnt mesh well with the rest of the group. You basically dump him off and let him lose on the enemy. Which is not that hard to either get away from him or cut him down in one turn. Also I only see the Doppleganger being useful for a turn or two in the game. She can help with making dolls fast in that turn you need them fast but I dont think Collodi needs much help from her. So basically she is grabbing objectives or using Obey from Zoraida (which she isn't very good at casting). I'm going to try her later but not expecting much. Bad Juju seems like a great add to the doll list with Zoraida. He is summoned, so go where you want. He is beefy, doesnt need lots of support. Adds a threat that seems more consistent than Killjoy, also he doesnt cost as much. I mean Killjoy is 11 or 12SS? That's my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Juju over Killjoy all day every day, and don't discount the -ive flip on your opponents initiative caused by the Doppleganger - it's very, very useful. (DG is one of the best NB models imho) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Agreed on dopple...you can give your mrionettes fast and mellee expert... Kill joy does have great synergy with the list cause its one of the best delivery systems for him..dumping him off after your opponents have activated..and with dopple more than likely activating first...also he can be obeyed where as bad ju ju can not....stitched togethers yes are dolls but just slow down this list to much ok in some matchupss if you don't mind slowing your army down to wait for them...... If you run collodi with dreamer I would use stitched...makem fast casting experts then rebury them and then movem forward... Sorry for the bad formatting but I'm typing from my phone.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasticBoy Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I actually like the stitched together with collodi. They arent as fast as the other dolls but they do offer some resilience to the crew. Taking advantage of their high Wp, especially near Collodi, and with blocking LOS while near objectives. They are also really useful for forcing the opponent to lose cards and use cards. Speed isn't everything, and frankly collodi has enough that the stitched can hang back to provide a screen for Collodi and crew to fall back behind. Anyway, back on topic. I forgot about Dopples initiative help, that is valuable. I think my problem with Killjoy is that your entire plan has to revolve around him. That kind of necessity I dont feel fits well when its usually the master that determines what gameplan you have. Killjoy is a beast but man he just is so one dimensional and like I said he really isnt hard to kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Did first league game today against perdita with my list..killjoy was mvp....end of turn one he had kill joy dropped right ontop of him...slow to die action I can eat my fill on my two wnd wickef doll to gettem back up to full (unless it wad errated somewhere) killjoy is a must answer model leaving zoraida to obey him around as well as dopple..that's not even counting collodi and pals doing whatever they want...the shear number if attacks are crazy...so against perdita I won 8-0.. Will keep updates on every game I play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Slow to die allows you to do a (1) action. Nothing more. Eat my fill is a (0) action so can't be done during slow to die. He gets to (try and) take someone with him when he dies, but he doesn't come back. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozzy Posted April 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 touche...(this didn't come into effect during the game considering killjoy didn't die)... But that being said in a pinch you could eat your summoned wicked doll to healem back to full... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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