First game with Hamelin the Plagued

[swellmodels]

Got in my first game tonight with a freshly built Hamelin crew and a new Rules Manual. Just played with the starter box plus two more packs of rats against a Collodi gang. I managed to get Hamelin killed in close combat by a very vicious puppeteer in the final turn for a hilarious loss/upset. A few thoughts:

-rats are really good at slowing down an opponents Supply Wagon.

-the Foggy special event is worse for Hamelin's opponent than for his crew.

-the Obedient Wretch will be nice, as I spent most of the game with only 2 or 3 cards.

So learn from my mistake, Hamelin may be dangerous but Collodi can still kill him in melee.

-swell

[tadaka]

Intresting batrep. I am not shocked at all. The puppet is crazy good as written he can kill pritty much any thing in one turn if he wants to. He can unleash a crazy flurry of attacks and it pritty much ignores all armor and sprit effects because its all 1 point of damage a pop.

Next game you may want to try and bury hamlin in a field of rats. Space out rats enough so he cant place the dolls close to your key models.

[Necromorph]

So I played 2 games (well 1.5 games) yesterday.

First Game against Viks.

I took the starter minus 1 rat and 1 stolen for a rat catcher. He took Viks, 3 Ronin and 1 Convict GS. I had Claim Jump with Bodyguard and Kill Protege as my schemes, can't remember what his were exactly. Basically let him go for his objectives and went for mine while he sent 2 ronins and his CGS to try and harass me at my objective. Basically the Viks and 1 ronin did nothing but go capture his 3 objectives the whole game. I managed to kill both Ronin buy turn 3, but the CGS managed to rapid fire down both Nix and the Rat Catcher in subsequent turns (poor model placement on my part, and Hamelin was too busy making sword Vik insignificant and then moving toward the objective turn 4). I waited too long and was unable to kill the CGS before the end of turn 5. He scored 7VP's (He didn't announce an Assassinate), and I scored 6.

What I noticed.

-Rapid Fire is bad.

-Rats are almost insanely annoying for the opponent, as they can't afford to keep killing them or they'll be generating more rats for you to attack with.

-Hamelin's ability to make models insignificant is incredibly useful.

-His crew can be incredibly fast with movement combinations from the rats, catchers, and nix.

The second game was against Dreamer but it was a Demo game (friends first game. Yay, more Malifaux converts) so it's not really worth noting the details because we only played like 2.5 turns. One thing to mention though, is that (unless we missed something with Hamelin's crews' rules) many of the models are vulnerable to Terrifying and WP duels. Nix, and Hamelin are generally safe, but rats and rat catchers were running a lot, lol.

[JayBarlekamp]

The second game was against Dreamer but it was a Demo game (friends first game. Yay, more Malifaux converts) so it's not really worth noting the details because we only played like 2.5 turns. One thing to mention though, is that (unless we missed something with Hamelin's crews' rules) many of the models are vulnerable to Terrifying and WP duels. Nix, and Hamelin are generally safe, but rats and rat catchers were running a lot, lol.

That is the weakness of the crew. However, in the new rules manual, Soulless models are not living so they are immune to the terrifying. they are still vulnerable to the WP duels though. unfortunately this does nothing for the rats or catchers, but the stolen, wretch, hamelin and Nix (I think don't have book with me) are imune to terrifying.

[Necromorph]

Ah, yeah see that's what I figured, unfortunately, the rats/ratcatchers aren't soulless so they still take fearless, although a good counter to this is if you have a rat catcher outside of terrifying range. He can use Moldy Cheese to call the rats back to him and then kill them, these new rats were not effected by terrifying, and thus don't need to rally, still doesn't stop him from fear bombing them again later, but at least you don't end up with rats scattered all over the place.

I actually played another game against him (dreamer) yesterday and we ended up with a draw, but there were some interesting things to note.

1- Alps (especially more than 1) basically force you to pass with any rats and or stolen that are near them to avoid dying to their aura's...and thus summoning more alps. Basically how I handled this was to move Hamelin back into the fray. I made chompy and copelius insignificant (not in the same turn obviously), and then did his ability where he pulls all insignificant and ht1 enemy models to him. I cast this twice, killed both alps, a daydream, did 12 wounds to chompy (2 severe's and he had to burn stones to prevent 5 dmg for a total of 7 on him) and 3 to copelius, but they couldn't attack Hamelin and were essentially locked.

2- Escape and Survive was my Strat, I ended up getting 0 pts for my strat but made both of my schemes. E&S is incredibly difficult for Hamelin because his crew is designed to die and keep coming back to harass the oponent. Therefore it is almost impossible to have "original models in you crew" left alive at the end of the game. I started the game with 3 rats, 1 stolen, nix, rat catcher, and hamelin, and ended with 2 rat catchers and Hamelin (only 1 of my original models was left alive). Beware this strat, lol.

[FrereSebastian]

@necromorph

Thanks a lot for the massive play testing that you are putting up on the forums, saves people like me a lot of trouble when we finally get Hamelin our selves.

[Necromorph]

Heh, np, I'll keep posting stuff up as I play (prolly wont be till next thursday or so) against other crews with different strategies. I know a Hamelin Tactica will be forthcoming soon from Sandwich but I figure I can give people some info on what to expect.

I'm gonna get some games in with some Resser crews next week, and I have a feeling they won't like me very much, but I'll keep you guys posted.

[swellmodels]

I had a different interpretation of the conditions for Escape and Survive. I took the line "number of models that you started the encounter with" to mean just the number of models, not that you had to keep the original models on the board. That seems strange.

Played another game, this time against Lady Justice. Things for me to take away:

-Must try to keep Nix alive.

-The clarified math rule (divide before add/subtract) makes Critical Strike better against spirits.

-If I ever have the impulse to go charging into combat with Hamelin, I need to take a deep breath, and make something Insignificant instead.

[tadaka]

-The clarified math rule (divide before add/subtract) makes Critical Strike better against spirits.

Wow they actually changed A rule to make guild do more damage?

[Dark Alleycat]

It isnt just guild that gets to do more damage,though they would be the most common to be affected. Would mean Flay just got even nastier on spirits.

[Necromorph]

Hmmm...perhaps that's how Escape and Survive is, that was the first time I've had it.

Yes, there is always a temptation to charge Hamelin into combat as he is one of the only "heavy hitters" in his crew, but many of his spells are just so much more nasty and debilitating. Though if you have the cards to cheat he can 1 shot an average model quite easily.

It really does depend on the crew though. It seems to me after playing him (Levi and Von Shill are my other crews) that Hamelin's tactics and overall performance are influenced much more by what crew you're going up against. Many crews have some generic tactics that can be slightly tweaked to take on most opponents. With Hamelin it seems like the basic way you organize/play the crew differs dramatically from game to game based on the opposing crew. Do you debuff or nuke? Do you let Hamelin or his crew do most of the work? Do you rush up the field or hold back? It's a bit more complicated than some other crews. Not that these questions are uncommon for other crews, but for Hamelin they are essential to performance, where with some other crews these questions are things to ask yourself regarding personal preference.

[Necromorph]

Back with more news on Hamelin, I played 2 games this week against Colette and Nicodem.

Nico v. Hamelin:

Nico-3 crooked, 1 punk, Mort, Grave spirit. (Claim Jump, Assassinate, Bodyguard).

Hamelin- 4 rats, 1 rat catcher, Nix. (Distract, Bodyguard, Hold Out).

As I expected, Hamelin is a bane to Ressers. With Hamelin denying Ressers' corpse counters, they don't have a whole lot of ability to replenish their ranks, one of their biggest strengths. Bolster undead helped him out a bit, but once I stacked some blight counters on his phalanx of crooked men, it was all over as even with 2 blight counters on each model, a rat swarm becomes a powerhouse. Between hamelin and the stolen I was pumping out, most of his models were insignificant by the end of the game, and a couple of his pulses and the rats took most of the crew out. It was a 25ss game and by the end of turn 5 he had Nico, a mindless zombie and his totem left surrounded by a whopping 11 rats and a rat catcher.

Colette v. Hamelin

Colette- Cassandra, 'phee x2, Mechanical dove. (Treasure Hunt, Bodyguard, ?)

Hamelin - Same list as v. Nico. (Line in the Sand, Bodyguard, Hold Out).

Now, the problem with this game right off the bat was his list. You're not going to alpha strike Hamelin, possibly the catcher, which may have been his goal but idk. A note on Line in the Sand, Hamelin's crew fits this well as his rats lose insignificant so long as he and nix are around, so the swarm can light the dynamite quickly. He spent most of the first couple turns grabing his objective and running, while spamming doves. I made both 'phee's insignificant before they could dance together, and then pulsed them both (and 2 doves) in to the ground. *A note to Colette players out there, be CAREFUL if you take Corephee against Hamelin, he loves to eat glass cannons.* By turn 3 I had all dynamites active, and he was retreating Colette and Cassandra to the corner. Last turn I put a couple wounds on Colette with the rats, and failed to make Cassandra Insignificant, so he got full points for his Strat. Final Score was 8-6 me, so he didn't do too bad, but we didn't do random game lenght, which helped him because 1 more turn would have seen him wiped out.

I would like to note though, that I still condiser Colette to be one of the better crews against Hamelin due to her maneuverability and speed. I think his list would have been better off if he had just taken his starter box with some doves, as being able to hand off the treasure and then switch places would be nice. In addition, she has an ability that (iirc) allows her to basically warp an enemy to her, thus pulling a rat catcher or nix out of position and throwing off Hamelin's flow (which is key, Hame's like a big boulder that gets going slow but if you let it build momentum you're screwed).

Based on my observations I made a list of crews I think will give Hamelin trouble:

Guild

Sonna- Generally tough crew to go against, counterspells.

Perdita- Same as above, massive firepower.

Ressers

Kirai - Spirits slow down his ability to nuke via blight counters/ primarily physical dmg based crew. Gaki Gaki Gaki Gaki, sacrifice those rats(though this doesn't help you against a "Stolen Bomb" list but w/e).

Neverborn

Pandora- Manipulation and moving models out of position.

Dreamer- Alps Alps Alps, force tests on the swarms. Lots of terrifying models which effect all but Hamelin and Nix.

Collodi(?)- His insane speed keeps him out of Hamelin's reach, though not sure how resilient he will be if Hamelin manages to get anything on him.

Arcanists

Colette - Speed and Manipulation (noticing a trend here? haha).

Outcasts

Levi- Umm...duh? He's doesn't give a sh*t who does what, he just nukes your face. Though crew selection will be key, if you give Hamelin too many ways to spawn rats, Levi and his Waifs will get surrounded (though I'd love to see him take out a Catcher and then suicide pulse 12 rats, lol).

Feel free to add if you like, I don't have a lot of experience playing against all of the crews in Malifaux, this is just a summation of crews I feel will perform well against Hamelin based on my current experience (notice how it's still only about 8 out of 25 crews, eek!).

I will also note that many straightforward crews (Viks, Lady J, Marcus, Ophelia, etc) will have a nigh impossible time dealing with him, just the facts, he is broken vs.some crews.

I will be playing a game against Seamus next week, but since we know from my Nico experience how that game will turn out, so I will be trying a "Stolen Bomb" list, and I'll let you know how it goes. The theory is to sac all the stolen when he gets close (which he will have to) make most or all of his crew Insignificant, then draw them into Hamelin's pulse and go to town.

As always, hope you all find some of this at least mildly helpful, lol, I'll keep you posted.

[Wodschow]

Blight counters don't increase Wd beyond the first counter, from what you say it sounds as if you played it wrong vs. Nicodem.

Also Seamus relies a lot less on summoning than Nicodem does so I don't think you can extrapolate your game there.

Edit:

From the other thread you should also be aware that discarding != playing cards.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Wodschow

[Sezar]

Also, if I was your opponent controling Seamus, I would go for a Molly, Jack and Hangeds Crew. Lots of Terrifying and Wp Duels around... Also remember that Lure will be a real pain in the ***, specially for your Catchers.

[Necromorph]

Blight counters don't increase Wd beyond the first counter, from what you say it sounds as if you played it wrong vs. Nicodem.

Also Seamus relies a lot less on summoning than Nicodem does so I don't think you can extrapolate your game there.

Yes indeed. The blight counters would not have made much of a difference really. None had more than 2 (which granted wouldn't have worked) but they were all insignificant by then, which means I could have just drawn them into hamelin and nuked away(assuming my rats didn't kill them in the next turn which is likely). Really didn't change the outcome of the game as by the time the Crooked died I had 8+ rats on the table and Hamelin was in prime position.

Against Colette, yeah, I had that drawing thing clarified, but again, by the time I had a huge hand (turn 4 I believe) he only had cassandra and colette running away into the corner, I never got a chance to cheat using any of those cards, so again, rules are clarified now to avoid any repeats, but in that particular game it had little effect other than looking ridiculous, lol.

Also, yes, Seamus does play quite differently from Nico, thus denying him a means to summon isn't so crippling, but when all of his belles are insignificant or are being mobbed by a swarm of rats, the outcome is generally the same. That was part of the reason I was going to go for the stolen bomb list against him as opposed to the one I ran above, as he would be able to lure the rat catcher(s) away from the rats and kill him alone, but we'll see how it goes.

You're right, bringing jack/hanged and such with Seamus would be best for him (same premise as Dreamer), but he likes to play lots of belles, and I think he only has 1 hanged, Bette and the copycat killer in adition to the belles, so he wouldn't be able to pull it off, though I will suggest that he at least takes his hanged.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Necromorph

[Necromorph]

Well...I finally got that game in against Seamus, and those who posted earlier were right, he is definitely a bit more of a pain than Nicodem.

30ss

Seamus- Madam, 4 Belles, Hanged, Copycat.

(Shared Contain Power, Bodyguard, Holdout)

Hamelin- Nix, Wretch, 5 Stolen.

(Shared CP, Bodyguard, Hamelin's Scheme)

The first few turns were uneventful, my hand was horrible, and when I did manage to draw cards, they were low. I don't think I saw a single card over 8 in my hand until turn 3. I kept trying to spam abandon on his crew, and he happily discarded cards. Not only that, but he wouldn't cheat anything because he knew it would let me draw, unfortunately, this made the game very slow for both of us. Finally managed to start getting cards in turn 3, and managed to nuke down 3 belles, the Hanged, Copycat and Madam on bottom of turn 3 and 4. Sadly, I lost track of time a little, and thought turn 5 was turn 4, so I didn't have a chance to really stick it to Seamus before the game ended. When it ended, he had Seamus and a belle left, and I had 1 stolen, the Wretch and half a dozen rats on him, but didn't get that extra turn to burn them down.

The game was a draw.

Had I remembered it was turn 5, I could have made the rats into a ratcatcher and manuvered them to his deployment zone to deny him his Holdout VP's, but yeah, I suffered a minor spell of retardation and forgot what turn it was.

I feel if I had played a rat swarm he would have cleaned the floor with me due to Lure's and Terrifying checks. As it was, he played rather intelligently. His refusal to cheat, and eagerness to discard cards to prevent Abandon from going off really slowed me down, but at the cost of denying himself some offense. In addition, he was smart to lure my stolen off to a flank and kill them to prevent their -2wp pulse from effecting too many of his own models.

All in all it was a very interesting learing experience for the both of us.

[swellmodels]

just played a 35 ss game with Hamelin against Marcus tonight as part of an ongoing escalation league.

I think the match up was:

Hamelin (contain power, bodyguard/gather soulstones)

Wretch

Nix

Ratcatcher

3xStolen

3xRats

vs

Marcus (slaughter, frame for murder/primal source)

jackalope

moleman

gunsmith

cerberus

rogue necromancy

shikome

most of the game went pretty well for Marcus, his shikome killed Nix on turn 2, and he built up a pretty enormous tally of dead rats. Hamelin just kept inexorably moving toward Marcus, murdering beasts in the process. Final turn Marcus got too close to Hamelin and took a black staff up against his head, with a 8-4 result for Hamelin.

Slaughter is very tough for Hamelin (as mentioned before). The Rat catchers and Wretch were a big help. I guess with Contain Power, I'll just have to leave Hamelin exposed and hope that my opponent takes the bait again.

-swell

[Koali]

well that Marcus List is illegal...

Gunsmiths are Special Forces so is the Rouge Necromancy...

Since you are only allowed to take one kind of Special Forces... this list is not legal.

[magicpockets]

well that Marcus List is illegal...

Gunsmiths are Special Forces so is the Rouge Necromancy...

Since you are only allowed to take one kind of Special Forces... this list is not legal.

Wow way to Necro a thread to prove a point :lol:Having said that I didn't realise Gunsmiths were Special Forces so worth doing

[Koali]

Ah... that old Rezzer in me came up...

hehe...

im gathering Information about hamlin ... and since i play Marcus... that Game Report first got in my sight!

But i can say... more reports please!

[PlasticBoy]

haha, having played many times against the Marcus (and Hamelin) players in this thread I have to say, throw a dog a bone. Marcus needs all the help he can get. I didn't realize he was using two special forces in many times playing and frankly it hasnt helped much so will continue to let him do so sorry buddy but its true

[jdomin2]

haha, having played many times against the Marcus (and Hamelin) players in this thread I have to say, throw a dog a bone. Marcus needs all the help he can get. I didn't realize he was using two special forces in many times playing and frankly it hasnt helped much so will continue to let him do so sorry buddy but its true

Play against good marcus players....