Those damn Noobs and their lists!

[DeleteAccount]

Hello, I'm starting to play with a small group and at the moment, I'm interested in being the corpse guy. In a couple of days I'm going to have my first game and I was tempted to fiddle with Nicodemus. As I wanted to have a clear core, I will be using the contents of his box and add a vulture and a nurse to get it to 30 ST.

But from what I've been reading, people tend to diss on the nurse and favour the belle and also suggest a lot of canine remains. Basically, I'm looking for some guidance. Also, is Nicodemus a nice master to start with or would people favour Seamus or McMourning more for the learning stage? I have tended to always play backline casters in warmachine, reason why I gravitated to Nicodemus, but I have no problem changing it up thanks to sage advice.

[Sandwich]

So its 6 am and monday, I've just awakened, and I'm tempted to write you a tl;dr like my tactica. But I won't, I'll keep it short and simple.

Nicodem is the Support Caster and fills that role 100% perfectly. He cannot get too deep into a big fight, even with support units, without getting smacked around. He does boast an impressive 12 health and Hard to Wound 1, which is really good for a caster, but this should be taken in vain as nearly enemy unit that you allow to close the gap could essentially end Nico very quickly, or force you to burn through much coveted Soul Stones.

As to the question of if he is good to start with or not, I would say he certainly is, especially if that is the playstyle you are used to. The only other Resurrectionist Master I can give insight into is Seamus, who, if you've any interest in him, feel free to follow the link in my Signurature.

This is not to say that Nicodem cannot bring the pain, though he usually won't be needed to. (1)Rigor Mortis can easily stop an advancing meathead and allow Nicodem plenty of time to relocate, whereas (1)The Fog can easily turn the tides of battle against a ranged centric crew like Perdita.

So now we come to (1)Decay. With a very easy Casting Cost and the ability to heal multiple units AND damage nearby enemies in one single cast is absolutely wonderful.

Lastly; (1)Reanimator. It has a moderate Casting Cost and obviously requires corpse counters present on the Board, (There will be plenty between Mortimer, your ceaseless advance, and your Vulture's range,) but it allows you to summon ANY non spirit, non unique undead, and you get a free control card out of the deal. This spell has no casting limit, meaning, were circumstances proper, you could effectively bring in three brand spanking new units in a single activation, so feel free to save your good control cards for this spell.

As for the Nurse / Dog combo? It can be good, but I would strongly suggest against it in favor of a Belle. Here's three reasons why;

1. Your punk zombies are not the most resilient units in this game, and they MUST move one at a time. This makes it incredibly difficult to pile them onto something you want to die. When you combine them with a Rotten Belle however, you can force the targeted model to move its walk towards her up to two times in her activation. Pulling a big model into three punk zombies and a Belle is not ever something your enemy wants to see.

2. Pairing a Nurse and a dog for a cruise missile of sorts seems like a good idea, since you can always make more, right? Bad idea. Would you rather spend your corpse counter and AP on summoning a dog that has 3 health and deals low damage, or a Punk Zombie with 6 health and a high damage output? This tactic works best for Dr. McMourning, not Nicodem.

3. Do you really want to put a corpse counter behind enemy lines?

[DeleteAccount]

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I'll probably go belle then, though what I meant was having a nurse instead of a belle, didn't really think up to the step where I used dogs as scud missiles. The nurse tempted me since she seemed nice to keep my punks trucking and when needed, make them missiles along with Nicodemus buff and have them go in a blaze. But I don't really know to what extent this actually works as I picture it.

Another question I have is about how corpse tokens work. I mean, does every single living model drop a corpse token or is it when I kill a model witha gravedigger when they get a corpse? I can see how Mortimer helps me with the corpse roundup, but leaving that aside, I'm not so clear on how the mechanics work for me getting more corpses. Also, I presume that to create mindless zombies, Nicodemus has to be packing the corpses, but how do I get the corpses to him?

Sorry for all the ignorance

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Unless there is a special rule stating otherwise on a model, every living and undead model that dies leaves a counter.

You have to pick them up with your master, or the dog remains by their special rules. You should really read the rules on counters before your first game. It will keep the game rolling along and your opponent won't dream of shoving your models up your nose.

The core rules are short and easy to understand so read them.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Murphy'sLawyer

[gregdorf]

If the model is sacrificed, which is what usually happens with the nurse or when Nico redirects damage to a mindless zombie, the model does not drop any counters.

With Nico you will want to do arise, which creates mindless zombies. They are his greatest source of defense if they are close enough to him. Because they are still corpse counters you can also use his summon undead spell on the mindless zombie, which I think has a range of 6" to bring in better quality undead.

[Sandwich]

Pretty much yes to what they said.

As for the Nurse, Nicodem can heal your punk Zombies (AoE with moderate or higher) with (1)Decay. This can also damage any enemies caught within the blast.

And you don't want to do a Nurse + Punk Zombie combo as after Stimulant wears off, the zombie is sacrificed, meaning it won't leave a corpse counter to be recycled.

Just take a Belle, 2-3 Punk Zombies, Morti, a Vulture, and save the rest of your space for extra Soul Stones, you'll want them.

Mortimer can effectively companion with Nicodem via his (0)Zombie Companion and Nico's Embrace Death, allowing you to instantly drop a Corpse counter with (1)Exhume, and then immediately activate Nico and bring in whatever mean thing you'd fancy.

Though technically, you could start with a nurse to cruise missile doggies, instead of a Rotten Belle, as you could simply summon a Rotten Belle right off the bat with the aforementioned tactic.

[gunpowder saint]

since it's the cool new thing to abuse the Companion Rule lol :] I'll give it a shot.

Mortimer, zero action Companion Punk Zombies, and then, Pile them on.

What was that Sandwich? Punk Zombies not cool enough? 3 simultaneous Charges with Paired Katana's at Combat 7? Yes Please!

[Sandwich]

since it's the cool new thing to abuse the Companion Rule lol :] I'll give it a shot.

Mortimer, zero action Companion Punk Zombies, and then, Pile them on.

What was that Sandwich? Punk Zombies not cool enough? 3 simultaneous Charges with Paired Katana's at Combat 7? Yes Please!

I'm not entirely sure if that could work because the zombies don't have companion in their abilities list, but, if it did, that's pretty much anything = dead.

[nilus]

since it's the cool new thing to abuse the Companion Rule lol :] I'll give it a shot.

Mortimer, zero action Companion Punk Zombies, and then, Pile them on.

Mortimer only allows you to companion one undead model.

[Sandwich]

Mortimer only allows you to companion one undead model.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking.

[ProdigalPunk]

I feel the nurse is kind of on the more useless side in a Nico army, there is not much she can do other then deprive you of those ever so nice corpse counters. I like to start with cheap stuff and unsummonable stuff and then work my way from there. Summoning punk zombies into base contact with all the stuff making its ways towards me.

[hippieshopper]

Yeah, Morty is basically a factory. Don't try to slingshot those Punk Zombies like Belles, it won't work.

[Azarack]

One of the tricks I use with Nico and Nurses is to Nurse up a punk zombie with stimulants and reactivate. Then have him destroy some enemies with his 11cb +damage flip. After hes done with both his activations use Nico to drain his soul into a soul stone. This saves you from sacrificing the model for nothing at the end of the turn and gets you a soul stone. You will be playing undead so who cares if your army is at -1 wp?

[shekbo]

Ok, I don't know what other people recommended, but as a starting Nico player I'll say a few things.

As a new player, the pros of Nicodem are: Survivability, both of the army and Nic himself. That zombie fodder ability allows any hit to go to an adjacent undead, and gosh, Nicodem can make a corpse stand up for a free action! And it's undead! if you play your cards right, you're unkillable. Secondly, you've got a ton of cool options, so get your creativity on with your lists and summoning. Finally, he's versatile. You can change tactics mid fight, keep your opponent on their toes, and that's just fun.

However, the cons are just as numerous. Con 1: Lots of minis. He's gonna cost more and give you more of a painting load than any other master, due to that same versitility. Con 2: His options can seem a bit overwhelming. What do you summon with 8 (is it eight now?) different choices? What 0 action do you use? Etc etc etc. He's a complex guy, and in no way a straightforward sluggin master.

As it is, for a list I'd say the dogs are a good idea, the nurse is kind of an underperformer in a Nico list, because Nic himself has a lot of healing/buffing abilities that just makes the nurse a lousy second fiddle. A belle and a pup (or crooked man and a pup, depending on your preference) work great to provide good early game ranged support and help you get your zombies into melee.

[DeleteAccount]

Well, played my first game and used the following

Nicodemus

3 zombie Punks

Mortimer

Vulture

Belle

First of, our little doubt session. A few of my questions include if The blindfolded master of the Guild's master strike ability (the one that buffs attack after netting a kill) affects her. We presummed it didn't, but weren't sure. My opponent also looked at me funny about how corpse tokens worked, how I understand it, a small base makes 1, a 40mm 2 and a 50mm 3 and you need the same number of tokens to make a model of said size with reanimator. But he understood it more like a 40mm produces a 40mm corpse token and so on. What interpretation is correct? Also, another question, if I decay into a combat, I presume I can ignore the WP test by being undead, but since the resist is WP, does the enemy model get the +x def from being in melee with other models? We pressumed it didn't since it was attacking his WP, not his defense. Another small doubt I had is that a mindless zombie and totems drop corpses too, right? I'll probably keep bombarding you nice people with doubts while I remember them :wave:

The game itself. First big fault of mine, underestimating how much I depend on the card suits. I had 2 turns where I couldn't reanimate because of bad hands or simply not having clear how it all worked, I compensated it bringing back to flesh golems trough the game, but it certainly hurt me those 2 turns. I need to memorize more my triggers, I'm convinced a forgot a few here and there. I'm a retard till I noticed the belle can use lure and already has a mask when casting it and for the first half of the game I was convinced my tricks were useless because they were constructs (was playing against Rasputina) and ignored WP checks, then noticed it was just for morale porpuses.

The other thing is I had too much of a packed formation and lost a punk and had the other 2 with only one wound after Rasputina did one of her snow blasts. The pillars also hurt me a lot. On the other hand, when we finished the game, we had 1 less point on the table than him, which shows me just how powerful the resurrection tricks can be, specially since he had killed 24 SS equivalent on models and I had only killed 10. We weren't playing scenario, though common sense it would be a loss for me, even though if played more turns, I'm convinced I could sway the game to my benefit.

My other little lesson to learn is how to possition mindless zombies, but that's just game time. Mortimer didn't do much except produce 2 corpse tokens in early game and fail to do anything with sand shovelling, another model I need to get a better grasp on.

All in all, I liked the game and definitely want to keep playing. I'm looking at crooked men just to get some ranged into the mix with some table control shenanigans and I'm also really interested in trying out the other 2 masters.

Also, thanks for all the feedback, I'm interested in going the mass dog route and see how that goes.

[Sandwich]

Well, played my first game and used the following

Nicodemus

3 zombie Punks

Mortimer

Vulture

Belle

First of, our little doubt session. A few of my questions include if The blindfolded master of the Guild's master strike ability (the one that buffs attack after netting a kill) affects her. We presummed it didn't, but weren't sure. My opponent also looked at me funny about how corpse tokens worked, how I understand it, a small base makes 1, a 40mm 2 and a 50mm 3 and you need the same number of tokens to make a model of said size with reanimator. But he understood it more like a 40mm produces a 40mm corpse token and so on. What interpretation is correct? Also, another question, if I decay into a combat, I presume I can ignore the WP test by being undead, but since the resist is WP, does the enemy model get the +x def from being in melee with other models? We pressumed it didn't since it was attacking his WP, not his defense. Another small doubt I had is that a mindless zombie and totems drop corpses too, right? I'll probably keep bombarding you nice people with doubts while I remember them :wave:

The game itself. First big fault of mine, underestimating how much I depend on the card suits. I had 2 turns where I couldn't reanimate because of bad hands or simply not having clear how it all worked, I compensated it bringing back to flesh golems trough the game, but it certainly hurt me those 2 turns. I need to memorize more my triggers, I'm convinced a forgot a few here and there. I'm a retard till I noticed the belle can use lure and already has a mask when casting it and for the first half of the game I was convinced my tricks were useless because they were constructs (was playing against Rasputina) and ignored WP checks, then noticed it was just for morale porpuses.

The other thing is I had too much of a packed formation and lost a punk and had the other 2 with only one wound after Rasputina did one of her snow blasts. The pillars also hurt me a lot. On the other hand, when we finished the game, we had 1 less point on the table than him, which shows me just how powerful the resurrection tricks can be, specially since he had killed 24 SS equivalent on models and I had only killed 10. We weren't playing scenario, though common sense it would be a loss for me, even though if played more turns, I'm convinced I could sway the game to my benefit.

My other little lesson to learn is how to possition mindless zombies, but that's just game time. Mortimer didn't do much except produce 2 corpse tokens in early game and fail to do anything with sand shovelling, another model I need to get a better grasp on.

All in all, I liked the game and definitely want to keep playing. I'm looking at crooked men just to get some ranged into the mix with some table control shenanigans and I'm also really interested in trying out the other 2 masters.

Also, thanks for all the feedback, I'm interested in going the mass dog route and see how that goes.

Part 1: The Blind lady is Lady Justice, and no she is not affected by her own Buff.

Part 2: You were correct. Corpse Counters are 30mm bases, nothing larger.

Part 3: No, they receive no bonus from decay. Remember that your Decay will heal your units and hurt theirs, that spell is downright lovely.

Part 4: Use mortimer to Melee his opponents and farm our Corpse Tokens whenever that isn't possible.

A good little think to do is send your Vulture (Who has a wk of 10" +flight) Into an area with a lot of Corpse counters and have Nico cast Arise!

This will allow you to take all of the Corpse Counters within 10" of the vulture and place them within 6" of Nicodem.

[DeleteAccount]

Thanks a lot for clearing some stuff up. As for the vulture, I can use it to cast aura en pulse spells then? Like the fog or bolster?

[ispep]

Arise is a (0) action, not a (1) spell. The vulture has no way to cast/use it.

[Natty]

As a new player, the pros of Nicodem are: Survivability, both of the army and Nic himself. That zombie fodder ability allows any hit to go to an adjacent undead, and gosh, Nicodem can make a corpse stand up for a free action! And it's undead! if you play your cards right, you're unkillable.

Just a clarification, but if I remember correctly (don't have the book in front of me), Nicodem doesn't pass the hit on to an adjacent undead, he sacrifices a zombie to cancel a hit. Bit of a difference since it only works with the mindless zombies and it is a sacrifice, so no corpse counters.