Silly question, no doubt... (Belles of the Ball)

[Penemue]

Belles of the Ball gives friendly Belles +2 Wk. My question is as follows:

I want to take two Walk actions with a Belle on my turn. She started her activation within 8" of Seamus. Is the Wk bonus applied only to her total distance moved (it would be 10" in this case), or is the bonus applied to her Wk score, which would give her a 12" move in this case?

I'm leaning towards the second interpretation, but I just wanted to be sure. With no real play experience under my belt, I thought I'd ask the other Resurrectionists

[nilus]

If the Belle was in range of Seamus's Belle of the Ball during both walk actions then she would gain +2 for each.

[Penemue]

If the Belle was in range of Seamus's Belle of the Ball during both walk actions then she would gain +2 for each.

Thanks! The book says "activating," so I assumed that if the Belle started her turn within 8" of Seamus, she got the bonus to all Wk no matter what.

[Matamane]

What?

If she starts within the range, she gets it on both, even if the first move takes her out of range. It is still the same activation, and the trigger was met, so it only matters where she activated, not where she ends

[nilus]

What?

If she starts within the range, she gets it on both, even if the first move takes her out of range. It is still the same activation, and the trigger was met, so it only matters where she activated, not where she ends

Calm down killer, I thought it was an aura. Seamus is not my expertise and I didn't have the book in front of me. Yeah if it says when activating then yeah she gets it for both walks regardless of range.

[dgraz]

When her activation starts within range she gets the +2 - so it is for both walk actions.

[Matamane]

Thankfully, Molly makes Seamus playable.

[nilus]

Thankfully, Molly makes Seamus playable.

I am pretty sure Seamus was always very playable.

[Matamane]

I find him very underwhelming, especially in comparison to my main, Dr. McMourning, or even Nicodem.

[dgraz]

Wow! Some of my best games were against a Seamus crew. I'm sorry the guy was playing him has switched over to the Viktorias for a while.

[Sandwich]

Thankfully, Molly makes Seamus playable.

????

Seamus makes Seamus playable.

His Belles make him dangerous.

Bete Noir makes him lethal.

Molly makes him... Dangerous-er?

The only thing I can see Molly overly useful for is her ability to revive Madame Sybelle.

And the only thing I see Madame Sybelle useful for is bringing out Bete Noir.

And maybe Shriek.

Seamus has a counter to nearly every strategy in this game.

His Belles fill in the gaps.

He may have a slightly larger learning curve due to the wording of some abilities, spells, et cetera that his army has access to, but he is in no way unplayable.

[Penemue]

Another question (still Belle-related), as I finally got a game with Seamus in yesterday...

Does Lure force a push in a straight line, or can you push the target model its Wk around terrain? We used a lot of town-scape terrain, and the straight line interpretation seems to mean that having your base even slightly obscured by a wall equals no Lure. It also seems to mean that the target can't hop out from behind cover that it can't actually traverse (like walls, since you can't Climb during a push).

We played the first interpretation a while, then switched to the second just to see how it would work.

[dgraz]

The target has to move in as straight a line as possible, which means moving through terrain if needed, but if there is something that blocks movement then the model will detour around it using the shortest route possible to get to the caster.

[Sandwich]

Lure Pushes the target in a straight line towards the caster of the spell. That means they go through units and most terrain. They cannot be pushed into / past impassable terrain but can certainly be pushed the distance of their walk through rough terrain and then be forced to walk out of it with Walk Penalties.

[Hatchethead]

I am pretty sure Seamus was always very playable.

He's absolutely playable ... assuming you can stand looking at his mini on the table. Molly makes him even better. He enjoys one of the best ranged attacks in the game, can potentially alpha strike his entire box which consists of some of the best utility models available (Belles). And don't even get me started on Undead Psychosis hijinx!

Lure Pushes the target in a straight line towards the caster of the spell. That means they go through units and most terrain...

I've always assumed a pushed model detours around other models, assuming no pass through (not sure about fly and float). Pushes still have to be a "legal move" according to the FAQ (page 3).

Edited September 11, 2010 by Hatchethead

[Penemue]

We didn't have any trouble with other models, but with the terrain, we eventually decided to use the "detours around pieces, moving as directly as possible towards the Belle." At times, this made a model shuffle two inches to the side, out from behind a building, then 2" towards the Belle on a diagonal. Since Push does not read "directly towards," we thought that this would be an ok interpretation. Getting different answers, though...I'm not sure which is correct.

[Hatchethead]

Since Push does not read "directly towards," we thought that this would be an ok interpretation. Getting different answers, though...I'm not sure which is correct.

I believe the errata specifically states that a push does NOT have to be made in a straight line. You can push your Ronin around a corner, for instance. Lure indicates that the push is made directly toward the caster, though I believe the target model is forced to detour around impassable terrain (obviously) and intervening models.

[Wodschow]

From page 2 of the Errata:

"Models forced to move:

• Toward/away from something (another model, a

specific point, table edge, etc.) must move by the

shortest route. A model moving in this manner

cannot end the movement further from/closer too

the thing than it began.

• Directly toward/away fromsomething must move

as far as the effect requires in a straight line. They

will stop this move if they come into contact with

any intervening models or terrain they could not

move through or over."

Lure says 'towards', not 'directly towards'.

[Stargazer]

what happens if you reach the model that's casting lure? This came up in a recent game, and we just decided that the model being lured just stopped in base to base with the model that cast lure

[Hatchethead]

Lure says 'towards', not 'directly towards'.

Thanks for that. We've been playing Lure right. I think we've been misplaying 'directly towards', however. Cheers.

what happens if you reach the model that's casting lure? This came up in a recent game, and we just decided that the model being lured just stopped in base to base with the model that cast lure

Yeah. I believe they stop in b2b and suffer a melee strike for their trouble. I don't think they move around and beyond the model that originally lured them, otherwise you'd risk them ending up farther away if lure was cast as extreme close range, which is against the errata Wodshow posted. At least, that's how we've been playing it. But I've been wrong before. :nod:

[Sandwich]

I'm sorry, I didn't deliberate.

For most intents and purposes, its really your choice as to what route the intended target takes.

In the games I have played I generally want to lure them through things that will occupy their turn to get out, you and your opponent can, however, choose to forego this and just pull them around whatever terrain is between the two of you.

[Penemue]

We played with impassable/climbable terrain, so my main concern was being able to use my Belles to pull stuff out of impassable cover. Now I know it can be done, which really helps!

[Sandwich]

Remember that LoS still comes into effect when casting the spell.

You can't lure something you can't see.

[dgraz]

I'm sorry, I didn't deliberate.

For most intents and purposes, its really your choice as to what route the intended target takes.

In the games I have played I generally want to lure them through things that will occupy their turn to get out, you and your opponent can, however, choose to forego this and just pull them around whatever terrain is between the two of you.

I don't think this is correct. I believe the target has to move toward the caster in the most direct route possible, only moving around impassable terrain. If there is severe or hazardous terrain, they still have to move through it (suffering any penalties). I believe the only limitation to that is that the move can't be used to deliberately kill a model - like walking into lava.

[icemantis99]

I don't think this is correct. I believe the target has to move toward the caster in the most direct route possible, only moving around impassable terrain. If there is severe or hazardous terrain, they still have to move through it (suffering any penalties). I believe the only limitation to that is that the move can't be used to deliberately kill a model - like walking into lava.

As far as I know, it can kill a model. There's no kill-terrain in standard Malifaux, so there's no book rule on it, but I know that you can be pulled off a building to your doom (Sad, sad personal story...).