Viktorkias help?!

[Dark_Trainer]

So I've played 4 games with my Viks and been straight out SLAUGHTERED each game. I must not be seeing something here, or playing them very wrong, etc.

The Viks are seeming pretty lackluster for me so far. I've been playing 30ss games with this matchup:

2 Viks

1 Student of Conflict

3 Ronin

1 Convict

7ss cache

Played Nico, Karai, and a couple other masters I can remember. Anyways, long story short I'm getting STOMPED. The entire crew is a bit squishy and can't survive getting attacked well at all. I did find I charged and didn't SHOOT much (is that a mistake?)

So, that said I can't seem to find a tactics thread for the Viks on here. I'm getting disheartened in them. After a few things I've seen not sure what route to go. I'm told Taelor would be a good idea but don't want to add another to a lost cause. Also noticing things like Viks don't have zero abilities like other masters, ronin being kinda spendy for what they are, no healing for being quite squishy, etc. Ronin have also been lackluster too...

Any suggestions would be great!

[LoboStele]

Sounds like you're playing them at least somewhat right. I hardly ever use my ranged attack with my Viks, and I'm up to about 3-4 wins now and only 1 loss at the LGS (that was to a Lady Justice crew and I played it very poorly looking back). Are you utilizing the SoC and Companion to it's fullest? I've found that typically the best moves seem to be to let me other pieces lead the pack, with the Viks and the SoC just slightly behind. Have the Ronins try to soften up something, just getting them down to less than 9 wounds is helpful, as the Viks do 3 for Weak with the melee strikes.

Then you just have to pounce all at once with the Viks, or so I've found. Also helps to wait till about Round 3 to do this, so you can set yourself up nicely, but also so you can have a decent hand by that point. You position so that you can do Companion with the SoC and BOTH Viks, then have your Gun-Vik run/charge up or whatever is necessrary to get close to the enemy. If you can do a single move action, then get her Melee Expert attack, then you still have at least 1 AP left to use for Sisters in Spirit and either straight out swap, or bring Sword-Vik up to the fight. This works well as you can often then place the Sword Vik in position so that she has multiple targets in case you trigger Whirlwind. Then, Sword Vik can now make 4 Melee attacks total thanks to Fast and Melee Expert. This should be more than enough to take down at least 1 model, possibly two or more depending on your triggers. You could even spend an AP in there somewhere for Sisters in Battle to get the extra +2 damage, but I haven't found that to be necessary all that often.

As for your crew, with 7 SS left over, I would definitely swap out one of the Ronins for Taelor, which would still leave you with 4 SS. I've found that this seems to be enough for the Viks, unless you're planning to use 5 of those SS to summon another Ronin. Taelor is a beast, IMO, in most games. And her magical weapon will really help carry the load in some matchups. At the very least, her solid Wounds and damage output also make her a good threat for your opponent to worry about and take some of the heat off of the Viks.

[Dark_Trainer]

I like the idea of taking taelor to get some heat from the viks. Makes sense.

I also think waiting til turn 3 would make the difference! I was noticing the Viks can outmove their crew too easily and ditching the crew to leave them hanging wasn't a good idea, so what I need to do is wait to pounce. Makes a quite bit of sense!

I'll try those next, any other tips welcome!

[Gremlin Swarm]

Don't forget the dreaded Victoria yoyo attack.

I've seen/heard of various versions of this, but the one I like best is to have gun Vic run in and hack at the target. Make sure to use her Melee Expert action for the attack so you'll have a 'regular' action to use to push sword Vic into the melee (or just have them switch places). Then sword Vic goes to town.

I've also used both Taelor and Johann in my Vic crew. I know Johann has abilities that'll basically go unused in a crew like this, but he hits just as hard as Taelor, and from just as far away. (3" melee reach!)

Absolute brutality, if you can get them in there, which I haven't had too much trouble doing.

I'd definitely keep at least 1 ronin, though, along with 2 ss, for 'Another One?'.

[pinkcarson]

LoboStele said:

"You position so that you can do Companion with the SoC and BOTH Viks, then have your Gun-Vik run/charge up or whatever is necessrary to get close to the enemy."

Yes recieving fast is pretty cool but is it worth 3 Soulstones? Seems like SS striking/defending and damage prevention is better than gaining fast. It seems like a better idea to send ronin ahead and tie up your targets while your Viktorias move in for the killing blow with SS boosted attacks. If the SoC's Assist action were a Spell then it would be another monster all together since the Viks would both benefit.

As far as crew options I recently switched to the Viktorias and I'm basing them on a High Cb/high Df scheme.

Bishop, while expensive has a ton of flexibility and can be at an effective Cb 10 against any target that isn't smart enough to hide from him. Also, he has the option to go to 8 Df. While in Defensive stance he can stick in with ANY non-master model. He can also scoot across the board quickly, walking once then charging for (1)AP (even if you don't end in melee range you still move the charge so you can target a model that is clear across the board).

Misaki can go to Dg 4/6/8 and for each RAM that you flip on damage you flip again. If you flip low damage you can cheat the damage with a low ram and you get to flip another card. Her defense is average but her Cb is in the top even among masters. Also a fast fighter.

Ronin are of course very synergestic with Viktoria, but also have the capacity to have a huge defense like biship. The Cb stat is mediocre but any hit you push through ignores armor and recieves a + flip to damage. This is the slowest of the crew but can go nuts across rooftops and up walls utilizing cover and terrain to your advantage.

Also the Viktorias themselves have a great Cb (especially with paired) and an above average Df. Let your gun toting Vik lead the way and take fire, once she reaches melee use your actions to buff her (the other one too) and then swap the paired swords into melee. If you saved some soulstones then you're sure to kill almost anything.

Edited August 19, 2010 by pinkcarson

[Wodschow]

Misaki can go to Dg 4/6/8 and for each RAM that you flip on damage you flip again. If you flip low damage you can cheat the damage with a low ram and you get to flip another card. Her defense is average but her Cb is in the top even among masters. Also a fast fighter.

Uh oh.. This is not entirely right..

For each Ram in her attack duel (will seldomly go higher than one), she merely receives a positive twist on the damage flip.. This is by no means the same as flipping an extra card, and it certainly won't do you any good to cheat in a low Ram on the damage flip (you'll do weak damage and lose a control card and nothing else happens).

[Slinkdawg]

Good points made in the above. I usually would not run all 3 ronin, but at least one is pretty good. Other than that, I like to run either Taelor, Bishop, or Convict GS.

Sometimes for the Viki yoyo, you do not want to run the viki's side by side. Swapping them can be pretty nasty and effective, when your opponent has something that can threaten them.

[Gremlin Swarm]

Try Taelor, Misaki, and Johann. Freaking brutal (aside from the low model count), even without the Ronin, plus you'd have 4ss left over for use (in a 25ss game).

I like Bishop's versatility, too, though.

[Whatsicle]

For 30 SS I go with:

Viktorias

Student o' Conflict

Convict Gunslinger

Misaki

Ronin x2

The gunslinger is almost entirely for suppressive fire right before I plan on sling shotting a fast Viktoria into their midst, while Misaki and the Ronin run up to harass anything else.

I absolutely love Taelor (with her less effective friend Johan now exclusively reserved for Killjoy summoning), but 30SS is a bit small of a game to cram her into, especially when you consider you're really bringing 22-25 SS against their 30 because Viktoria has no cache but absolutely needs one (Both to augment her defensive flips and to summon another one!). Taelor taking up almost half my SSs... ouch! (The second we go to 45 SS though she's the star player and rightly feared)

As for the Ronin.. the only time I would suggest running all three is in a 60SS game! Since run through has been errata'ed, they're not the obvious choice any more and though they can pack a punch, that third ronin is typically what's standing between you and Taelor or a Gunslinger.

The thing with the Viks is they take a surprising amount of finesse and a great great deal of concentration. Their learning curve isn't nearly as bad as say, Ramos or Leveticus, but I would definitely say they take a few games to use to their full potential.

[thekolo]

Whenever I run Viks it has always been at 35 points and I have always run 3 ronin, 1 convict gunner, and a bishop.

Not very creative, but it cuts out the amount of math I have to do. Now then advice time, first question is what crew do you play against most often? I mean the sort of advice I would give you for dealing with a Ramos spider swarm would be different than dealing with Pedita, or even Seamus.

Next thing I would recommend as a general hard and fast rule is no matter what your soul stone total for the game is, save 5. Your soulstone pool is spread between two figgures with a defense of 6 and seven wounds. Seven wounds. There are things out there that can kill you in one hit. You want soulstones.

On the soulstone note, one of the most important things you are going to need to do with the Vickies is get the imitative. Getting the initative is important enough to torch a soulstone for. See the death yoyo is great and all but to often it leaves one Vikie out in the open, or there will be another figure near by to kill and eat, for the most part though going first means you can get a vik who is in trouble back out of it before the counter strike hits you. It is easier to just have them not be in the area instead of taking a hit. The Viks are more than capable of eliminating any figure in the game with their 7 attack and the potential to do 6 damage on a moderate hit, and since the sword vik has paired chances are you are gonna get your moderate at the very least.

The rest of your crew needs to be running around helping to ensure that your viks can always get the kill shot. That is really where the hard part comes in. For the ronin, one thing to remember is defensive+defensive stance means you have an 8 defense model with 2 flips on the defense. To pull it off though you pretty much need to start the turn in base to base contact with another figure, remember defensive stance has to be your first action of the turn. I try to do this at the end of turn 2, I'll try and activate a ronin last and stick them out as far into the middle of the table as possible right where everyone wants to be then I will turn them into an unassailable rock then on the third turn they will be spending all sorts of time trying to avoid the ronin's charge range.

But you can pretty much guarantee that your Ronin isn't going anywhere.

Bishop is capable of moving a figure 8" and slowing it assuming you have the right cards in your hand. 8 inches is pretty snazzy and can mean the difference between a supported enemy model or a model that is in charge range of a vik, or within rapid fire range of a convict gunner however you want to play it.

[thekolo]

The thing with the Viks is they take a surprising amount of finesse and a great great deal of concentration. Their learning curve isn't nearly as bad as say, Ramos or Leveticus, but I would definitely say they take a few games to use to their full potential.

Before I scamper off I would like to point out this. This is important. Your viks are just about always one bad activation away from death. They require careful planning and I find them rather nerve wracking to play. As a result they have surpassed seamus as my favorite master.

[Guy in Suit]

Got 4 or so games in with my Viks since last comment, and have learned a bit more.

The crew LOVES cover. It has been critical to winning, and they use cover better than most.

You can float around behind corners and then Sisters in Spirit Sword Vik out so she has a clear charge path. Ronin can go over rubble full speed and Run Through around corners.

I used to think of it as a more fragile lilith-type beatstick crew, but really, they are more about mobility and hit-and-run. Don't be afraid to a wait and pounce. Also a if you can force your opponent to come into the open, a focused clockwork pistol strike can really do the business.

[LoboStele]

I played a 30SS scrap last night with the Viks, 2 Ronins, Student of Conflict, and Bishop, against a Marcus crew, using very few beast, but including Hans, a Conflict Gunslinger, 2 December Acolytes, and a Moleman. I crushed him with only having lost Bishop (darn Convict Gunslinger high attack/damage flips and Rapid Fire). But Bishop's +2 Df spell really was awesome. He survived two full rounds of attacks, only taking 2 Wds, while almost all of my opponent's squad took attacks on him. That 8 defense is brutal against any non-Masters, as you start with about a 3 or 4 higher Defense than their attacks. Makes it crazy tough for them to actually hit him. I don't know that I'll play him all the time, but I at least understand how to use him a bit better. Bishop's Adaptive Fighter was also very strong allowing me to pummel the tunneled Moleman, thanks to Bishop having two different ways to gain "ignore armor". As always, the Ronins were strong as well. I utilized one to completely lock down Hans for 2 rounds where he ended not being able to do anything, as he had to Disengage AND use his (All) action and take the :-fates in order to do anything at all. He missed his attack the one time, and failed to disengage the other time.