Whatsicle

Whoops! My bad on the 'Hard Ass'. Good eye, those who saw that! As for the Librarian: She's another one I'm undecided about. She is pretty expensive, but that +1 control card is pretty nice, three healing flips a turn is also pretty awesome (Or the +def spell? Golden!), she's neigh impossible to kill with 'Slow to Die' going.. I've included her in every game, but so far she has yet to really shine like the trapper and Von Schill himself. Adds a bit more to the already high survivability, I suppose...

I've done the Friekorps a couple of times now, and I have to say... awesome. Just awesome. The Trapper is the best thing since sliced bread. 16" range and you can deploy him 12" away from the enemy? Deploy last, use them high cards... And, on his last shot, he can reposition into safety behind a building or something. Just phenomenal - he has played a direct role in victory every time, which surprises me, because, to me, he only looks mediocre on paper. Von Schill is equally impressive. Hard Ass? Haha, take that Pandora / Ressurectionist / Everyone Else, WP ~11 everywhere. His pistol is equally fantastic - with nimble he gets to run up there, take a couple high powered shots, motivate his crew, and then activate the Werfer of Flammen or the trapper to finish someone important off. Seamus never saw it coming, heh heh heh... The Specialist I'm undecided about. I feel like he should be awesome but he has yet to actually do anything. Keep in mind that slow-to-dying "detonate tanks" won't work in melee - it specifies "makes a ranged strike against..." which is a pretty big let down. Friekorpsmen are another one of those 'meh' units, but with critical strike and brutal, not to mention their armor, they do do a pretty good job of screening the librarian, specialist, and Von Schill. All in all, I love them to death. Not quite as fun to play as my incredibly cheesy and unsporting Lilith list, but a great deal more fun than anyone else by a long shot. Especially if you have the points to add Hans in also... >D

I don't like Bishop, but I think Johan has his uses. The Convict Gunslinger is absolutely fantastic though. Suppressive Fire can win a game all on its own, if your enemy bunches up. He shoots stuff too, I guess, but that's secondary. Goes well with Desperate Mercenaries... The Box Set + Ronin is pretty solid. The whole set works well together, Taelor is a beast, and Ronin are annoying as crap (for them - I swear by them!)

The biggest change for the Viktorias in Rising Power is the release of 2SS Desperate Mercenaries. I believe it still holds true that the Viktoria box with a blister (and maybe Misaki) is her best bet, at least right off the bat. The Desperate Mercenaries can do some pretty cool things, but... Von Schill, the Mercenary Special Forces guy, is pretty cool too.. but he's pretty much his own self contained set, not reliant on the Viks.

I won't quote it again because it's been done a bunch, but right on Koali. The only point I differ on is The Order of the Chimera set needing slurids; while admittedly I am not very familiar with Slurids, Molemen seemed to make a great addition as well... Back to Firewyrm! First and foremost, welcome to the forums. I have this weird psychic feeling you're going to love the game. 1)The boxes do do (heehee) better with a blister accompanying them, but I think it's more of a scale of game effect than unbalancing of the starter boxes.. from what I've seen the game really shines at 30SS, which is the box + blister level. (Which is not to say it's not fun at larger levels, but a skirmish game at the skirmish level just works!) As part two.. I would see it's absolutely a wise choice to pick the models that you like the look of to play. If you can't stand the sight of your own models it's pretty hard to play the game, but if every time you look at them you go 'Aw, *&@^( yeah!' ... My personal view is that each of the starter boxes are pretty close to equilibrium with the exception of the swarm armies (Ramos and Somer really thrive with more small guys), though a few do have higher learning curves. 'The Viktorias' are, for example, pretty straight forwards while 'The Desolate and the Soulless' takes a bit of head scratching and contemplation. 2)Koali's list is pretty perfect. Of course, the best way to tell is to get the rulebook before buying a single starter box - it has all the models' stats in them so, once you get the hang of the surprisingly easy rules, you can look and see exactly what you feel would best help... or what would be the most fun to play, which is really what it comes down to in the end.

@Hogwart Yes. I think that sums it up. - While card counting (defined as the deliberate system of + / - in your head to determine probability after each flipped card, and not as 'I've flipped a lot of high/low cards this turn I'll probably start doing poorly/better now') may not technically be against the rules, it could definitely be considered poor sportsmanship for casual play. That said, I think it'll probably happen quite a bit at tourneys.. just not out loud. On the other hand, if someone is going to the effort of writing down each and every card as it occurs... that is blatant cheating. Page 34 of the original book states you may not look through your or your opponent's discard pile - what is writing down cards as you play them but looking through your discard pile, albeit without actually touching the cards?

I don't see non-unique Ortegas being 3ss, because of the aforementioned companion (and because they're likely to at least have a Peacebringer). 4SS is still a bit low, because Guild already has Guard, Marshals, and Stalkers for that cost. 5SS though.. Same cost as Ronin, upgrade the gun and downplay the melee, swap out some of the ninja skills for companion and shrug off.. What would they call them though? 'Little Ortegas' doesn't seem to fit in with my image of Perdita!

Yes but what's broken about all this? The summoning his entire army thing is a pretty new twist, but.. I still don't see how it changes the game disastrously. It just accelerates things so you're in melee a turn or two earlier. Since that's quite a few Master's (crew's) goal in the first place... (The Viks, Lilith, Lady J, Marcus, McMorning, Nicodem...) Am I illiterate and missing something major? (Possibility!) If he could clear the board in a single turn, place (not summon) all his guys, and THEN give them all companion... that would be broken. What am I missing, that brings him across the line from cool to game-breaking / "overpowered" ?

Those are very good points. Terror tots are the most survivable and the fastest, but the weakest... and now that you bring it to the forefront, I remember exactly how easily Mature Nephilim can be shot down, where a terror tot or young would be dodging out of the way. (Except not, oddly enough, by the Gunsmith. Sucka!) I didn't even think about fast crews who grab, say, treasure and then run away.. I believe my list has an answer to the that, though the growing strategy does not - My list starts you off with four terror tots. Nekima can grant s to their casting ability, and therefore, their spring. With a mask or two in your hand, suddenly you have multiple terror tots sprinting up to 30".. easily enough to be a speed bump, or more conservatively, to grab a centrally placed objective and be prepared to move with it next turn. I still don't agree with paying for young nephilim out of the gate.. it just doesn't seem worth the extra 1-2 SS for that 1AP, especially if you're doing it many, many times. It adds up quick! (Keep in mind if the end goal is young Nephilim, you can sprint up to 10" ahead of Nekima and then grow). I will, however, now agree that spending your first turn not moving may not always be the best option. But, since you pick your list after you determine your strategy, I don't see it coming up too often.

Absolutely. If I could highlight that and make it bold, I would. Oh wait. It's true with SS too! If you budget it in, it's actually cheaper to have Lilith Blood From Stone a terror tot than it is to buy a young neph, cheaper still to use a desperate mercenary.. (My proxies of which, by the way, are the chained GW Dark Eldar Slaves. They seemed to me to be suitable sacrifices!) Unless you want Nekima abusing sprint, I see absolutely no reason why your terror tots shouldn't all hit puberty within the first two turns. Something to keep in mind on my list - yes, you can spend the entire first growing, which I find both hilarious and fun, or you can spread it out over two, three turns depending on what's tactically prudent. When it works, hop over and steal one of Nekima or Lilith's SSs(sss) and grow/mature. ..I don't see what's so bad about not moving the first turn though. The game is at least six turns. You skip one. Say.. two turns to get bogged down in combat (which with either flay on a young or a mature shouldn't happen often!), you're still left with three turns to move, total, during which your slowest unit, the young Nephilim, can cover 30" flying. Add in your 6-8" deployment zone and you can be anywhere on the board when you need to be. Heck, even repositioning come turn five-six still gives you at least 20" of movement which, if you were even remotely close to the board edge, puts you anywhere. In summation (damn you energy drinks and your provocation to ramble!): One turn, maybe not the first, spent growing. One turn to move to the center of the board (ish), three! turns spent fighting, and you still have a turn or two left to get where you need to be if something somehow stood toe to toe with two matures and Nekima for three solid turns.

If Nightmares are not living, which you could very well be right about, you're right. It wouldn't work. I will leave it up to you, the fine folks whose book isn't out in the freezing car, to figure that one that! Edit: You already did! You guys are quick. ...Before it gets suggested though, I don't think The Dreamer not being a living model is broken, though. After all, neither is Ramos!

When a desperate mercenary dies, it grants a healing flip. Two DM, two healing flips! Reasonable chance that the 4 wounds Nekima takes for stabbing herself in the liver or gall bladder are recovered, or that she'll recover when she activates at the start of turn two. Good catch on Nekima not having drain blood. I don't know how I missed that, but... Well played. I guess that just means you have one of your young nephilim do the killing instead. ..Or have Lilith kill both, since you can 'Blood from Stone' as many times as you want for that same AP, provided you do it all at once. You're absolutely right - you're not doing much this first turn. In higher point games you can move a bit more, what with earthquake potentially cast four times, but at 30SS... They get a pretty much free first turn to move. I personally don't see this as too much of a disadvantage, as with the ranges involved in turn one it's pretty rare to be seriously hurt. ...Obviously if you know you're going against a Papa Obey list you deploy a bit differently and it slows you down some, but.. Understanding that local metagames are probably a bit different, I rarely see a game go to all six + turns, usually decided by turn 4 - therefore skipping one of my turns is, against most crews, a moot point. Furthermore! Yes, your entire crew is bunched up. Why all know why that's a bad idea, I won't say it isn't, but.. skipping that! What's so bad about not moving? If they have the range to shoot you safe in your deployment zone first turn, what's to stop them from moving towards your movement and then shooting them? ..also turn one. Sure they could obey Nino and Hans and a Trapper into position and take pot shots, but they could have done that anyway. At the same time, going back to bunched up: What crews can do massive amounts of blast damage turn one? ...and armed with that knowledge, don't do this against them. - To backtrack a bit, let me argue against myself for a bit and see if I can't trick/con/wile some of you naysayers into helping my point out! The biggest disadvantage I see is leaving Lilith with one SS. Again, local metagame may dictate this, but the play style here means if you master isn't walking around with five or so stones on them, they're dead meat. This relegates Lilith to a primarily support role, and darting in through transposition or charges to kill a lone model and GTFO. Furthermore, spending nearly half your SS (13 for Nekima in the assumed 30SS Scrap) on a single model is pretty insane - Nekima can die too, sometimes surprisingly easily (*^@*&@* Self destructing spiders and/or Pull-my-finger-ing mosquitos!) and when that happens, that's a huge blow to your army. It's the same reason my Viktoria army doesn't take Killjoy under a 45 point brawl.. he's too much of a point investment for a potentially disastrous blow, when the same SS could be spent on a mature and a tot, or two young, or or or... (For Lilith, not for Viktoria! Though the image of a Mature Neph carrying Vik into combat is rather appealing)

Raintar, that's untrue. The wording is "Living models hit receive paralyze." (Page 132) It doesn't say after damaging defending model, or after defender has taken damage, or any of the other ways triggers that involve damage specify this. You could hit, flip a black joker.. and paralyze. Bam! No damage is possible, you're absolutely right, but a status effect isn't the same as damage. Also I'm not sure what your argument is any more other than that masters are broken because they can cheat and use SS. What you're saying won't work against the dreamer... doesn't work (in that you're defining that as a definitive 100% win) against any master. For instance: 1a) Papa Loco won't kill the dreamer... Papa Loco won't kill most masters in a single explosion, even if he goes from 'Take Ya With Me' to 'Boom'. One chance to resist, two to prevent damage.. 1b) To attack any master you need lots of high cards usually with suits. 1c) If that master gets initiative first against something they kill it. ...it's what they do. Nino 2) Paraphrase: Nino can't kill in one turn if [The Dreamer] has SS. Nino can't kill any master in one turn if they have enough SS - three burned SS to boost def, three chances to prevent damage... and average damage for those 2-3 shots is 3 ea anyway. 3) ...And so on. I think I've made my point! The Dreamer and LCB are pretty awesome, and that's good.. they need to be awesome, all the other masters are. Heck, even Ramos is hard to kill if he's sitting on 8 soul stones, and he's the farthest thing from a melee master imaginable! But I don't get what about him makes him so much more broken than any of the other broken masters. (Which is to say, all of them.)

x2 ..That said, if only you could combine a Seamus / Zoraida crew. I can see it now! Zombie whores, their star attraction on the stripper pole, and all the while you're compelled to hand out $20s like nobody's business.

My Story of Boxing a Master By Whatsicle Or, Tactica involving both Withling Stalkers and Death Marshals disguised as sillyness A friend of mine absolutely fell in love with McMorning, after having a difficult time with Ramos. As none of us had seen anyone else play that crazy surgeon before, most of our (the community's) masters fall to well aimed dissections and his most hated 'Master Surgeon.' So, the player was feeling pretty awesome about his more or less undefeated master and decided 'Hey, there's two death marshals over there staring at the treasure, I bet I can kill both of them with some ol' Scalpel Slingin'!" He did, as I recall, kill one of my devoted death marshals without even the courtesy of waiting until he had his pension. The other was saved by either a high flip on his part or a poor hand on the other player's, but either way played no further part in this paragraph. Here's where the boxing happened! My counter attack was swift and merciless, with my figures' tiny lead hearts heavy with the responsibility of avenging their fallen comrade. The Witchling Stalkers I sent in to collect blood-vengeance were, of course, thwarted by McMorning and his amazing Df 4 spending SS and control cards like mad to narrowly avoid broken swords to his kidneys. The lone surviving death marshal from the prior paragraph finally went, then, emboldened by his chance to claim some glory for himself. 'Haha,' he (I) declared in a terrible Austin Powers impersonation, 'Get in mah box!' A 13! Poor McMorning was out of high cards, and his SS just wasn't enough. Into the box he went, while the still nameless Death Marshal Who Lived spent the remainder of the encounter running in fear from any and everything. Fin. - The above information condensed and without the attack on literacy: Why not take -both- Death Marshals and Witchlings? The witchlings are a great way to get an enemy master to burn up high cards and SS, especially if they haven't activated yet and fear that spell-shattering sword! Then, when their guard is down, obey in a marshal and stick them in a tiny coffin.