So... 2:1 count... how do you deal

[Mr_Smigs]

any faction really...

faced the gremlin horde recently,

and I gotta say... the whole "you have no cards and I have a zillion attacks after all your activations are over" really killed my enthusiasm for the game...

left me with two questions in my head...

1. When one player has 13+ models where the average crew would have 7... what do you do?

and "shoot them dead" doesn't seem to work, since they average 4 wounds a pop and Def 6...

2. Who's idea was it for a spell that has no resist and can burn out an opponent's fate hand from 22" on a 36" table?

[Lorenz]

blast templates and pulse

[gunpowder saint]

ok, so my friend plays Gremlins and I play Guild so I have access to the following Gremlin Killing Machines

Sonnia - More Blasts then anything else, lots of fire, lots of dead pigs

Guild Austringers - against the fiddly little bastereds

PaPa Loco - MOAR blasts because More is always More! also run into the center of a group and TAKE THEM WITH YA!

so yeah over archin theme?

BLASTS lots and lots of BLASTS

or Companion and have your Entire Army kill as many as you can before they go lol

Edit: also that burning cards out of your hand thing, it's forces Somer to eat wounds, so you respond fast. If you can eat Somer all the Gremlins should fall after that. also the game is about VP so I don't know this personally but I'm sure with all the Stempedes and Germlin squishy-ness it should be pretty hard for a gremlin player to actually get those VP

Edited July 27, 2010 by gunpowder saint

[Ropetus]

2. Who's idea was it for a spell that has no resist and can burn out an opponent's fate hand from 22" on a 36" table?

Check your opponent's cards. I'm quite certain the spell has a range of 12" so Som'er has to get up and close personal. Also, they suffer 1 Wd for each card discarded so they can't pull this one off forever.

Of course he can (and should) use Mosquitoes to do it but they start the game with only 3 Wd so will force you only 2 discards unless he spends resources to heal them. Discarding 2 cards is annoying, but far from crippling. He will need 3 Mosquitoes to force you discard all your cards which he cannot pull off often.

Try to bring more cheaper models in the game. Those around 3-4 SS, all factions have them. They are just as good for killing the weak Gremlins while the big guns would pretty much be an overkill. This allows you to counter their "wait until everyone else has activated, then do whatever we want" strategy.

Guild has Marshals, Witchlings and Guardsmen, Marshals and Guardsmen can survive a few Pigcharges while Withclings might kill the Pigs when they explode. Also their Disrupt magic makes it much harder for the Mosquitoes to utilize Magical Extension. Austringers are great as already stated.

Ressers can take a lot of hits and should have no problem gaining corpses with so many Gremlins on the battlefield. Nicodem summoning a bunch of Mindless Zombies each turn to use as fodder should work. Crooked Men are very tough against the Gremlins with their Df 6 and Belles can take a lot of hits from Pigs. They can also Lure their key models (Mosquitoes!) in to get killed. Necropunks and Dogs are great for catching the speedy Gremlins.

Arcanists have a more limited repertoire of options. Arachnids and Gamin are cheap and quite resilient. Molemen are great agaist Stampeding Pigs as they only suffer 1 Wd from each Pigcharge. Hoarcats could be useful: Harmless is great vs. Wp 4 all around and works even during Stampede.

Neverborn can take Terror Tots for crazy speed units to catch and kill the Gremlins. Lilith can take on the entire Gremlin force by herself: they will spend all afternoon trying to hit her Df 8 with their crappy Cb. Neverborn also have a lot of Rst: Wp spells which is the Gremlins' major weakness.

Mercs are a bit screwed since they have no cheap models and are quite fragile overall. Hamelin should be great though: he is invincible against all Gremlins except the Warpig and Som'er and hi spells are all great against them. This is possibly the best chance to use Black Death: A couple of casts should kill a ton of Gremlins and cripple most Mosquitoes.

-Ropetus

[ProdigalPunk]

Although I have no beef with slaughter as a whole, if you get slaughter against Gremlins you a bit screwed. However in all other strategies, just don't kill all of them. Use the fact that Gremlins have a hard time killing things to your advantage. Take a couple of tough to kill/hit models and just bog his army down. Things that heal after killing are great against hoards (Executioner, December Acolyte, Kill Joy). Other then that, take out the Mosquitoes and watch out for the pigs and you should be good to go.

[Mr_Smigs]

"watch out for the pigs" ....

kinda hard when he can manage all his gremlin activations first, then let the pigs run wild and free after I have no activations to respond with.

a mosquito healed full can burn a 10" flight move, and a 12" spell.

so it looks like the answer for the 2:1 problem is "take more models" as "take ones that are hard to hit" fails to "I have no cards and have to defend against 12+ attacks with flat flips..."

thanks guys. as someone who doesn't care for the sculpts or stats of the cheap models, this basically means no response.

[icemantis99]

"watch out for the pigs" ....

kinda hard when he can manage all his gremlin activations first, then let the pigs run wild and free after I have no activations to respond with.

a mosquito healed full can burn a 10" flight move, and a 12" spell.

so it looks like the answer for the 2:1 problem is "take more models" as "take ones that are hard to hit" fails to "I have no cards and have to defend against 12+ attacks with flat flips..."

thanks guys. as someone who doesn't care for the sculpts or stats of the cheap models, this basically means no response.

Okay.

First- Wow. Your tone isn't exactly any kind of grateful, or even polite. You got some well-reasoned, useful tips there, if you'd care to look.

Second- "Doesn't care for the sculpts or stats of the cheap models". That's kinda your own fault there. You go with the tractics you need to win, or don't complain when you lose. If I have trouble when I'm outnumbered, I'll make it so I'm not outnumbered. Read up on your Tzu.

Third- On the same note, if you don't use cheap models at all, you're gonna get owned almost every time. I'll have numbers on you 90% of the time, whether it's Gremlins, Ressers, Leveticus, Lilith... almost everybody will end up with more than you, if you don't want to use 4-5 SS or less models, which is what I assume "cheap" means. Big models are Big targets- they're good, but they can get taken out by a cheaper force if you're not very careful.

Fourth- "Defend against 12+ attacks with flat flips"- make it so it's not flat flips. Arcing screen, defensive stance, statue... there's a lot of ways to make it hard to hurt something. I just played Leveticus against Gremlins, and I won by using Gamins and SPAs in defensive mode, and Killjoy. Gamins burst when killed, could only get hit by one attack a unit a round, and could statue up to get some defense. SPAs were cheap, and damaged a large radius at end of turn. Killjoy gets a action every time he's killed, and can eat his fill every single time. makes him ridiculously hard to kill from Gremlins. I took some losses first round, but second round he had about 50% of his force left.

Fifth- Instead of solidly complaining, learn. Adapt. Change. Grow. Overcome. If all you do is say "No" to every tactic offered, you won't get anywhere. Try a few suggestions out, see what happens, then come back and update, we may have some more suggestions then.

Edited July 28, 2010 by icemantis99

[Ropetus]

Seems you are running the exact Crew Gremlins have an advantage over.

Gremlins are really good if they face a small Crew of big and expensive models. Their main weakness is having low Cb all around making it hard to score hits. However, those big monsters all have quite low Df so the Gremlins' weakness is removed. Also, the big guys are not that much better against Gremlins than cheaper models. Gremlins typically run around the field with very few Wd so having a damage table of 4/5/6 is total overkill.

Try to find a way to buff your big grunts. Granting them some Armor, +Df or things like Arcing Screen, making it costly to attack them. The Pigs don't have that many Wd (except the Warpig) so will crumble after just a couple of Pigcharges. Anything with Movement Control is also nice.

Killjoy gets a action every time he's killed, and can eat his fill every single time. makes him ridiculously hard to kill from Gremlins.

Sorry, no. Yes he does have Slow to Die for (1) Action when killed. However, this does not include a (0) Action required for Eat Your Fill.

IMO Killjoy is the worst model in the game to bring against Gremlins. If you lose Initiative you will get hit by a Companioned horde of Mosquitoes who will eat your whole hand meaning you will have no cards to pay Killjoy, meaning the Gremlins get to Activate him...

-Ropetus

[thaehl]

Im sorry Smigs the game was not intended to ruin your impression of the game. If it helps everyone generate tips and tricks for Smigs my list for our thirty point game was,

Somer

2 Mosquito

3 Piglets

1 hog whisperer

6 gremlins

I was using the take a swig on mosquito cast get your bro, attack a summoned gremlin with pig sticker and make a pig routine with Somer. then running pig pinball.

[icemantis99]

Seems you are running the exact Crew Gremlins have an advantage over.

Gremlins are really good if they face a small Crew of big and expensive models. Their main weakness is having low Cb all around making it hard to score hits. However, those big monsters all have quite low Df so the Gremlins' weakness is removed. Also, the big guys are not that much better against Gremlins than cheaper models. Gremlins typically run around the field with very few Wd so having a damage table of 4/5/6 is total overkill.

Try to find a way to buff your big grunts. Granting them some Armor, +Df or things like Arcing Screen, making it costly to attack them. The Pigs don't have that many Wd (except the Warpig) so will crumble after just a couple of Pigcharges. Anything with Movement Control is also nice.

Sorry, no. Yes he does have Slow to Die for (1) Action when killed. However, this does not include a (0) Action required for Eat Your Fill.

IMO Killjoy is the worst model in the game to bring against Gremlins. If you lose Initiative you will get hit by a Companioned horde of Mosquitoes who will eat your whole hand meaning you will have no cards to pay Killjoy, meaning the Gremlins get to Activate him...

-Ropetus

I was misinformed then. I thought the (0) action occured no matter what if he killed a enemy with a melee action? I thought it was a seperate trigger from Slow To Die. I could be wrong, that happens often enough, ha ha ha.

[Ropetus]

I was misinformed then. I thought the (0) action occured no matter what if he killed a enemy with a melee action? I thought it was a seperate trigger from Slow To Die. I could be wrong, that happens often enough, ha ha ha.

It's not a Trigger, it's a (0) Action. Yes, it states you can use it after killing a model but it's just an additional limitation on the Action. You still have to have a (0) Action available when you wish to use it. During Slow to Die you only receive a (1) Action which is enough for a Strike but not Eat Your Fill.

The Executioner's Love the Job is different because it is not an Action but an Ability that is always on. That works even during Slow to Die.

-Ropetus

[icemantis99]

Well, I have to apologize to Ian. Again. Ha ha ha, oh well. And went so well, too... *sad face*

Aaaaaaaaanyways. SPAs still did a nice job. Wasn't amazing, but enough of them stuck around to do a number on the gremlins.

Oops! Forgot to thank you.

Thanks!

[karn987]

Swarms can be a bit tricky to deal with, but I can tell you from the Neverborn side of things and Levy, the Gremlins aren't that bad. Most of them can't even hope to really touch Pandora and she can easily pop them. They aren't the best Wp so terrifying works good on them, just make them flee and watch them slowly die to all the lost Wp Duels.

Lilith loves them, easy to get blood counters for her brood. Mmmm blood. Just don't stay in LOS to long and your fine.

Zoraida has enough tricks up her sleeve to keep herself safe and still inflict a lot of damage. Juju isn't that easy for them to deal with and can quickly wipe out several at once with his AE.

Levy is fine with them. Oh noes! They killed Levy! You bastards! Oh he's back. The only issue I've found with Levy is keeping your Waif's safe from the pigs. But lesson learned, kill the pigs first. Your aura's from your Desolation Engine and SPA's can hurt the gremlins and do a number on them. Plus They have little chance to resist Levy's spells so you just start turning them into SPA's and building more doom machines and away you go.

The key is, don't let yourself face the whole swarm at once. Seariously. Don't confront all what was it, 13 goblins? at once. Pick them off little by little and avoid being caught in a cross fire. They go down really easy and kill themselves rather often as well.

[ddot]

Smigs. it might make things easier if we knew who you are running Master-wise and what a typical crew looks like for you. Yeah, being outnumbered isn't easy, but a lot of Masters have already been covered.

I haven't been able to play a game against Gremlins; I have witnessed several games where they were being played, and a few things became obvious (and have mostly been covered here but will be touched on for completeness).

1. Wp is their enemy.

2. Gremlins... not that tough. Bring at least a few models with a damagetrack with 4 in it (preferably in mod, ie a couple Punk Zombies 2/4/5 with Sebastian 3/4/6) and you'll have a shot at some one-hit kills.

3. Use cover and what-not to better defend against their ranged attacks and they'll do much of the work for you.

4. Don't get intimidated by their sheer numbers. Unless you draw Slaughter, you've probably got the tools to win your Strategy. If you do, pray for extra turns to hunt stragglers.

5. Most importantly, remember to laugh with them (or at them) . They are hilarious, and that is reason enough to want to play against them.

[thaehl]

the crew Smigs was using at the time was as follows

-Marcus

-Miranda

-Convict Gunslinger

-Hamelin

-Razorspine Rattler

[Ropetus]

the crew Smigs was using at the time was as follows

-Marcus

-Miranda

-Convict Gunslinger

-Hamelin

-Razorspine Rattler

Ok, it might be about Crew choice which is causing the problem then. Myranda is not very good in a list like that (because there are no Beasts to copy spells from, Constrict is not worth it). Also, Marcus is not an easy Master to play as his playstyle requires a lot of finesse. IMO he is harder to master than the Gremlins so if you both were playing your first games you should not worry yet.

That Crew has no tough models to take on the Pig rampage so no wonder you suffered. For Marcus Moles are the best models to use for protection with their Armor buffs. Hoarcats work great with Harmless vs. Wp 4. They also deal quite nice damage and can Devour everyone except the Warpig in case you get a high :crows .

If you don't want either you should use Marcus as your man to take on the Pigs: Use Wild Heart for Fox and whatever else you need and let him go to the front of your Crew. With his Df 7 the Pigs have a hard time hitting him, especially if you have Soulstones (bring a lot). His spell selection is a bit lackduster versus Gremlins but if you can cast Alpha on a Mosquito, you should definitely do it: either cast Gremlin's Luck on their team, wasting Wd on the Mosquito as well. If you can fart on a bunch of Pigs that might be preferrable. Alpha'ing Pigs is not much use since they will Stampede and most likely hit your own guys.

You should look at his Totem as well. For 1 SS the Jackalope is a steal and offers another good model for taking on the Pigs. It is Harmless as well and has a high Df. It will last only one hit but it keeps coming back. It can also cast Primal Flame to heal your guys.

A model you should also try out next time is the Cerberus (looking at the Crew I assume you have Marcus starter): it has great reach in melee with 50mm base and 2" reach and gets ton of attacks with Three Headed and Leap (to save Actions used to Walk). Leap also allows you to keep it hiding until needed, just save a medium :masks in your hand, they cannot easily discard your whole hand in one activation so you will get a chance to use it. It also has Roar in case you get a high :tomes : first Howl with Marcus and watch as they struggle resisting the Roar with Wp 1. The Rattler is a little more straightforward and should also be kept a little farther back to avoid getting hit by the Pigs.

Hamelin should also work nicely against them. Obey won't be that useful since all enemies have low Cb and high Df but you can still Obey your own models (Cerberus and Rattler Charging are maybe the best targets). Irresistable Dance prevents Pigs from stampeding and Piper's Lure is great for taking the Pigs out of the game. Black Death is horror for the Gremlins as they run with a horde of models with low amound of Wd. Damaging the Mosquitoes also stops them from discarding your entire hand. He can move near the frontlines as only the Warpig can hurt him at all. If you eliminate that one he becomes almost invincible.

The Convict is the best model in the game for the pointcost and (sadly) is an auto-include in every Crew that can take it. Really hope Wyrd does something to this model like upping its SS cost (for 8 SS it would still be a good buy) so there would be some actual thought in what to spend your first 6 SS on.

Some models you might want to look for are Silurids and Waldgeists from the Neverborn range, both are Beasts so Marcus can take them. Silurids are crazy fast and very effective in taking out Gremlins. Their Chameleon ability protects them well from incoming Boomstick fire. Waldgeists can move forests and are very tough with their Armor 2. If you can use them to Entangle some Pigs it might waste a few turns of Stampeding Pigs in your face.

Overall, Marcus crews with Beasts are a bit challenging to play. They are not a straightforward melee Crew. They are speedy and hitty (more in the form of many weak attacks instead of one big strike) but can't take any hits well. They really need to take advantage of terrain and retreat back to safety after every attack.

Hope this is of some help.

-Ropetus

Edited July 28, 2010 by Ropetus

[thaehl]

The lack of beasts is not the problem, his stratagem was based on the idea of turning Hamelin and Convict Gunslinger into beasts and casting both black death and suppressing fire off of Myranda, in order to get a discard effect. It seemed like an effective crew but the problem arose based on the match up, at least that what I feel. Though I do feel that is A Gremlins Luck could have a WP resist.

[ddot]

the crew Smigs was using at the time was as follows

-Marcus

-Miranda

-Convict Gunslinger

-Hamelin

-Razorspine Rattler

The lack of beasts is not the problem, his stratagem was based on the idea of turning Hamelin and Convict Gunslinger into beasts and casting both black death and suppressing fire off of Myranda, in order to get a discard effect. It seemed like an effective crew but the problem arose based on the match up, at least that what I feel. Though I do feel that is A Gremlins Luck could have a WP resist.

Seems like a lot to get off a couple extra castings on useful spells, but Myranda would still need a highish :masks to get most of Hamelin's spells off... which means perhaps discarding high :masks Control Cards before neccesary. ( Or maybe not, but remember I play Neverborn crews.)

I like the creative options available in the list, and I do believe it would be very effective in Treasure Hunts and late-game land grabs (or Sabotages), but, like most lists, has its limitations in other areas.

[Ropetus]

The lack of beasts is not the problem, his stratagem was based on the idea of turning Hamelin and Convict Gunslinger into beasts and casting both black death and suppressing fire off of Myranda, in order to get a discard effect.

This also. Discard based strategies do not really work versus Gremlins, since they have the highest card draw due to Survival of the Fittest. Most of the time they will have the junk cards to discard. Also, you should have something like Headshot to take advantage of their lack of cards if going for strategy like this.

-Ropetus

[Mr_Smigs]

well...

let's start at the top.

1. Army builds do not solve the problem I have. As in most games (particularly tourney style) you will not know you're getting out numbered 2:1 until deployment. And scenarios are as likely to make that worse rather than better...

this means, "take more small models" doesn't fix the problem as the army is built and done.

yes, I get my list was not optimal. I was testing a theory. that's not the point of the opening rant.

This also. Discard based strategies do not really work versus Gremlins, since they have the highest card draw due to Survival of the Fittest. Most of the time they will have the junk cards to discard. Also, you should have something like Headshot to take advantage of their lack of cards if going for strategy like this.

that's separate rant I didn't get to.

gremlins run with the ability to sink activations,

reliably (if they can get within 23") drain 3-6 cards from your hand,

AND hit accurately for generating a high hand count when generating their army.

but that's not the direction I was going with this inquiry

so again,

against an "elites" army, the weenie horde has a notable advantage.

now, i'm not aiming this as a rant against gremlins, they're just a convenient target.

it's the "what in the game engine balances the 2:1 ratio"

of all the wargames I've played, the ones with "I go You go" activations have had something in place that adjusts for an overbalance. Usually by either forcing off-balance activations (the larger force activates multiple models before the smaller one reacts), or allowing the smaller force to take "non activation" turns and wait.

but I don't see anything like that in the system.

and the only response I got in those initial posts was

"Build to reduce the ratio, or exploit it"

and

"Shoot more"

neither of which apply to a melee-based army already built before presented with that imbalance.

making those tactical suggestions useless.

as for "i don't like the ugly cheap models" that still stands true.

again, why am I punished for playing the elites.

in a point-buy system, shouldn't both armies have equal footing?

isn't that the purpose of a point-buy system?

and as an aside, Sun Tzu and other tacticians do not apply to wargames. none would ever insist on every battle being equal in footing on the table with declared objectives, identifiable leaders, and everyone at their peak performance.

if we were playing "Art of War", my snipers wouldn't deploy on the table (let alone where you could retaliate against them), and your troops would come into play at half health for the starvation they've been suffering from the last three weeks...

[Lucidicide]

Not to over simplify the issue, but...

"what in the game engine balances the 2:1 ratio"

the fact that to pull it off you are taking weaker models. If an opponent has that many activations, they have taken many cheap models, which means that the models are not that good. I think that balances it pretty well.

Gremlins, for example, are quite easy to kill. It's not a stretch to kill one per AP, which quickly changes that ratio. Also, there are usually a few power hitters in the 2:1 list, and if you target them the little things shouldn't be as much of a problem.

I have played games with roughly a 2:1 ratio, and I don't think it's terribly unbalanced. Your opponent does pay for that. You are not punished for taking an elite army. They are not punished for taking a horde. However, in specific match-ups, that will play out very poorly. If you don't know what you're facing ahead of time, a good idea is to build a balanced list. A balanced list probably isn't a list of all expensive models, making the 2:1 ratio harder to pull off.

I think the system deals with it just fine. It's true that equal cost = equal strength, but not in all circumstances. You say

shouldn't both armies have equal footing?

isn't that the purpose of a point-buy system?

I think the answer, for Malifaux, is no. That is part of why they let you hire after you know what you have to do. The models are not intended to be equally effective at all things in all circumstances. Therefore the elite army will suffer in certain strategies (such as reconnoiter) and in certain situations (such as against large cheap armies). Does that mean that the elite army can't win? No. But are they equal? No. That's why building a crew is a part of the strategy and balance of the game. If you insist on fielding one crew type, you have to expect to be beaten. Because I don't think there's a part of Malifaux that says as long as you spend the same number of soulstones as your opponent, all things will be equal.

What you bring to the table matters a lot, not just the points chosen. So you are not punished for taking an elite army. There are times that will work better and times that will work worse.

P.S.

and as an aside, Sun Tzu and other tacticians do not apply to wargames.

I agree that referencing Tzu as an argument in this context is a bit much.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Lucidicide
To add a P.S.

[TheBugKing]

Oddly I think that Sun Tsu and other tacticians to indeed apply in a lot of ways to wargaming. Note that I say wargaming and not wargames.

Obviously you can't be wargaming with out a wargame but when you add in the human element and what you can do to your opponent through careful observation as to what their strategy is and what they hold dear you can apply the lessons of Sun Tsu in all sorts of situations.

It's amusing to me that you are literally applying the lessons of Sun Tsu to this situation. Where as I think that while they apply to warfare they apply to life more. Part of the basic framework of this game is an attempt to build a situation where the better tactician will win. That is a huge portion of the mitigation of the luck issue with the card mechanic. It is also why there is a certain level of terrain suggested.

I personally have not had an issue at all with a 2-1 situation. However with out actually looking at your play style, attitude and the situation they are placed in there is little I can do to help you get better.

You may well be setting yourself up for a more difficult row to hoe with an elite force over a horde but given many of the elite options that this game has there are a great many ways to off multiple models at once.

Now, if you are set on only a specific few models and those alone then you are clearly ignoring Sun Tsu completely. Case in point: would you bring cavalry to root out skirmishers in the woods? No. You would bring archers with fire arrows or siege engines to remove the advantage of those woods. So, look at your model choices. Look for things that can move quickly and hit multiple models at once. Bring models that have blast templates. Hide from avenues of fire. Don't present easy targets. Be sure to string your opponent out so that he has difficult choices and so that the swarm is spread thin. Use Terror to your advantage.

The list goes on.

@ Lucid: You are fired. Tacticians don't apply to tactical wargames? What?

[Lucidicide]

@ Lucid: You are fired. Tacticians don't apply to tactical wargames? What?

Banned in the past. Fired now. What do your tacticians have to say about empty threats?!?

[icemantis99]

Ah, but you're taking it as a literal manual, rather than a set of theory and strategems applicable to almost any situation in which tactical acumen is required.

Sorry, got a "word a day" calendar. :-P

Anyways, did I mention making the game realistic? I'm fairly sure my Steamborg would be in a wheelchair then, and be a lot less effective, ha ha ha.

Tzu and tactical strategies most definitely apply to wargames. Firstl, ignore "equality", it doesn't apply. Tzu and t others aren't insisting on equality, we are. Second, 90% of Tzu's book was dealing with ways to push a stalemate to your advantage, how to cheat, lie, steal, ambush, and otherwise connive your way to a winning advantage.

Anyways, there's no reason a "elite army" should be inherently balanced against a "horde" army. What's the reasoning behind that? The point buy system is for flexibility in hiring and army assembly, not inherent balance between equal point armies. Warhammer 40k- You get curbstomp battles between equal-point forces constantly, even only using equal-edition manuals.

Having the numbers is a advantage, and that's just a fact. Not much of a way around it. As a strategist, you have two ways to deal with any given tactic, be it a "horde" army, a particular combination of abilities, or what have you:

First: Adapt your strategy to theirs. Break into more numbers (And by the way, just because you insist on not using small units doesn't mean it's any less your issue. It's not our fault you have a internal set of rules seperate to and different from the game rules.), use units that create area effects, use units that can take down tons of small guys, and survive a high number of attacks.

Second: Force your strategy to work. Learn to play defensively, to clog routes so that he can only use a part of his crew at once, hunker down and ride out te flood, learn to fight and win with your chosen team. Not a bad idea, but in essence "play better". Not exactly something we can really help you with, it's something you have to learn yourself.

Anyways, your idea of using a pre-assembled team is contrary to both the flavor and idea of Malifaux. It's been said often by people much better at this game than I, "This isn't a army going out and having to deal with whatever it finds in the field. This is a gang heading out with a specific goal in mind, and using the people best suited to that goal."

Basically, don't come with a preset army list in mind. Build it to counter the crew you're facing. Adjust.

Predictability is death.

As a final note, your attitude is kinda offensive, personally. You've been offered a lot of ideas, good, bad, or otherwise. A lot of people have taken time out of their lives to try and help you out, and your responses have been mostly "thanks for nothing". You're not even really being polite, much less grateful for their effort, if not actual help, and I find that pretty rude. Not a attack on you, by the way, just my personal view.

[icemantis99]

Banned in the past. Fired now. What do your tacticians have to say about empty threats?!?

Quite a lot! :-P But only if they're scary, ha ha.