islyfe Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 (edited) So you cant incite or pacify friendly models anymore, how have you been coping? Do you find her underwhelming now? Edited June 10, 2010 by islyfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) WHAT? *Checks errata* Wow, I hadn't realised that until now. I guess that changes alot - Pandora's not nearly as mobile (or broken) as she was before. I'll admit I haven't been using her lately (having too much fun with Zoraida), but I'm now curious to bring her out again and give her another whirl. I guess in the early turns you'll now need to rely more on casting dementia on your own (activated) models to help push Pandora into position*. Without the reach she used to have in a single activation she'll probably need to be more closely supported by her minions while she moves in for the kill. *EDIT: Sorrows casting Dementia on Pandora in the opening turn/s would help with the movement too. Edited June 2, 2010 by Rathnard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 :clap: Now that is something! Time to grab Pandora again from the shelf and see how is she working in this way. Very good decission, thumbs up for Wyrd! And thanks for the info islyfe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I guess in the early turns you'll now need to rely more on casting dementia on your own (activated) models to help push Pandora into position*. Unfortunately, Pandora casting Dementia on other things won't help her move since she is engaged in a CA Duel, not a WP Duel. Having the Sorrows cast Dementia on Pandora would work, but that requires an 8 to succeed and takes all the actions of the Sorrow. They could try for Meloncholy, but that requires an 8:crows:. There aren't a lot of ways to force her to take WP checks early anymore that I can think of. Played a game last night - another player was using Pandora. It took a couple of turns of full-out moving by Pandora just to get into any kind of position to do anything. She's pretty slow at this point, at least early game. If I had an option, I'd prefer to see her lose Casting Expert and gain Fast instead, so she could use that last action to move if need be (and early, she needs that a lot). But odds are against that happening. Not sure - I just felt like she needed.... something. Probably not the insane movement ability she used to have, but she needed something to help her get up the field a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Not sure - I just felt like she needed.... something. Probably not the insane movement ability she used to have, but she needed something to help her get up the field a little better. I guess tossing her with Teddy is a bit painful alternative movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I guess tossing her with Teddy is a bit painful alternative movement. Ha! Though I guess attacking her with your own models and having them fail the WP duel to be able to attack her would work. A bit risky, but possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnac Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 are these changes now official? if so, could i have a link please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Yes, they are official. Check out the Extra Errata Items sticky at the top of the rules forum. http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10309 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Just fyi, Pandora took another hit. The extra errata items now has: Grave Spirit, Essence of Power, Sorrows (0) Link Description should read as: This model and target model in base contact with it are Linked. After the model this model is Linked to completes a Walk Action or ends its activation, Push this model into base contact with the Linked model. I'm not really surprised about this one, but it, combined with the inability to get speed out of Pandora by Inciting and Pacifying your own models, slows down the entire crew pretty drastically. edited to add: I missed the "end its activation" part... this isn't actually that bad. Sorrows will still be able to slide up to Pandora even if all she does is Push during her turn. Though they won't follow her if she Pushes during someone else's activation. Be careful there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Also note that the only sorrows that will Push to her are the ones that are directly Linked to her. No more dragging a chain of Sorrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Also note that the only sorrows that will Push to her are the ones that are directly Linked to her. No more dragging a chain of Sorrows. Good point. I'd never tried the chain before, so that's probably why I missed that change. Overall, I'm pleased with the adjustment. Still allows for a bit of speed for the Sorrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharnac Posted June 3, 2010 Report Share Posted June 3, 2010 Yes, they are official. Check out the Extra Errata Items sticky at the top of the rules forum. http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10309 lol, the extra errata, of course. There was me leafing through the first errata about 6 times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 (edited) Unfortunately, Pandora casting Dementia on other things won't help her move since she is engaged in a CA Duel, not a WP Duel. Bah, of course - I should have known that. I've no idea what I was thinking when I posted that. Dementia looks like the easiest way to get Pandora moving quickly early on in the game. With that, each Wk moves Pandy a total of 7". Throw in a spell with casting expert and that's 18" of movement before you check spell range. A sorrow's (all) action will do it, and if it's not already linked (ie. you used the action on turn 1), you should be able to double wk & (0) link with another model in turn 2 to ensure it keeps up with the rest of the crew. A doppelganger or totem (ie. Poltergiest/Primordal magic) can also throw a dementia on Pandora. If the former mimics casting expert and dementia it won't even slow her down. Both could also (2) Channel the spell to hopefully avoid cheating a card to successfully cast it. Any spells you can throw at Pandora with a Wp resist could also move her along (candy could do it with a self loathing with casting expert, and it wouldn't slow her down). The lower the casting cost the better in this case, since you want Pandora to actually be able to resist it and everything here already requires either some decent flips or a bit of cheating. Finally, a Mature Nephilim can always help move her along (although I'm loathe to use him over teddy), and Hamelin can throw and Obey her way, then trigger growing command to cast another spell for Pandora to resist. EDIT: Grave Spirit, Essence of Power, Sorrows (0) Link Description should read as: This model and target model in base contact with it are Linked. After the model this model is Linked to completes a Walk Action or ends its activation, Push this model into base contact with the Linked model.This change actually has some potential for trickyness. If your opponent is close enough to Pandora linked with her sorrows, your can leave the sorrows within 3" of the target model/s (for emotional stress) while Pandy pushes her way to safety with her offensive spells. Then at the end of her activation the Sorrows zip back to safety with her. Edited June 4, 2010 by Rathnard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Hamelin can throw and Obey her way, then trigger growing command to cast another spell for Pandora to resist. Can't Obey a Master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Can't Obey a Master. Ah...right. I think the rest should work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malsqueek Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 If your opponent is close enough to Pandora linked with her sorrows, your can leave the sorrows within 3" of the target model/s (for emotional stress) while Pandy pushes her way to safety with her offensive spells. Then at the end of her activation the Sorrows zip back to safety with her. NASTY!!! My poor buddies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarnabyBones Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Well, the change to Link is a good one in my opinion, though now she needs some serious assistance getting out of the gate. Maybe a Mature Nephilim with Carry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarnabyBones Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Oh, and yes, leaving her sorrows behind to amp up damage is a really dirty, nasty tactic. I love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Well, the change to Link is a good one in my opinion, though now she needs some serious assistance getting out of the gate. Maybe a Mature Nephilim with Carry? As I said above, finding a way to get dementia on Pandora (via a sorrow, doppelganger or totem) is a possible tactic, as is casting spells that require a Wp resist on her. In the right situation, Kade's Lure would work too, although I'm not so sure of it's usefulness on turn 1 (thanks to the potential melee strike and the fact that you'd have to sacrifice harmless and an extra 5" on Kade) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagickalMemories Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Pandora is still insane. Granted, I'm a new player, but still... In one activation, she killed 5 Steampunk Arachnids (she had 2 linked sorrows) and threw a wound on a Steampunk Executioner. The girl's nuts, I tell you! So, sure... she doesn't get to get up in the opponents face on turn 1 anymore. Does that really mean she needs "help?" If anything, I think she might still be too powerful. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 This change actually has some potential for trickyness. If your opponent is close enough to Pandora linked with her sorrows, your can leave the sorrows within 3" of the target model/s (for emotional stress) while Pandy pushes her way to safety with her offensive spells. Then at the end of her activation the Sorrows zip back to safety with her. Her offensive spells won't move her since those are Ca-duels. As it was already pointed out earlier in this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Her offensive spells won't move her since those are Ca-duels. As it was already pointed out earlier in this thread... Sorry, I was thinking of Pacify/Incite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 Well, the change to Link is a good one in my opinion, though now she needs some serious assistance getting out of the gate. Maybe a Mature Nephilim with Carry? Mature Nephilim's rough because it's another 10 points that doesn't really mix well with the rest of Pandora's crew. I thought you'd be able to try to attack her with your models and fail the WP->WP duel required to target her, but it specifies that only enemies need to make that particular check. Your friendly models can stomp on her all day long and she's content with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csonti Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 I thought you'd be able to try to attack her with your models and fail the WP->WP duel required to target her, but it specifies that only enemies need to make that particular check. Your friendly models can stomp on her all day long and she's content with that. That would be quite lame tactic anyway. At least for my taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 (edited) So you cant incite or pacify friendly models anymore, how have you been couping? Do you find her underwhelming now? You could do it before? >.> I never knew that. Playing her as I have (without doing it on friendly models) Ive only lost a few of my games with her. She is still one of the strongest masters in the game and has one of the most potent crews out there. The new link changes actually work better in her favor I think. Its a nice change IMO. But yeah she didn't really lose anything significant I think unless people were really depending on that bit of an abuse with pacify and incite. She is still an incredibly hard master to beat. Plus she is still more mobile then any other master out there if she gets into range of the enemy crew (which she will always do because her effective range is 10 - 12" all around generally). So *shrugs* she is still epicly powerful I think and this change to link works much better then it was I think. I rarely ever lose with her so yeah, Im doing something right ;D Edited June 8, 2010 by karn987 because I fail at spoting new updates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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