Heared bad talk about Bishop... What's the give?

[Melnibonean]

Bishop... What's the deal?

I've heared that he's decidedly below par. I've never used him but I'm currently painting him as a possible inclusion in my Viks crew.

I love the model and I think that he could be used effectively with some experemantation but his cost seems prohibitive compared to his possible value.

Is there some kind of latent effectivness that I'm not seeing?

Please explain...

[Buck Dog]

In my limited opinion, I guess it comes down to bang for the buck... Bishop is very expensive for what he brings for the table. For the cost of Bishop you could have two Ronin or Misaki + Student of Conflict; and nines times out of ten both of those are a better choice.

If Bishop was a SS or two cheaper he would be a viable option, but as it is he is too expensive. There are a couple of situation where he can be useful, but I would only consider him for a 35+ SS game.

[TimeLapse]

It really depends on the game, he has some really good abilities but he is costly. I would not bring him in a game where you need to take 3 or 4 corners. But he has allot of possibilities. I don’t see him in tournament list but in a fun game I bring him just to see what he will do. But as a side note I would only bring him in my vic crew. The thing about Bishop that makes him seem a lot worse then the other possibilities is that unlike all the other models he does not have an obverse cheese move. Roin and others have there rolls clearly defined where Bishop in my mind is a wild card, A master of triggers and is something you though into a list to spice things up.

-Andrew

[Omadon]

I personally think he's fantastic. He's one of the most versatile models in the game. However - his purpose, for the most part, is not plain damage throughput. Paired with Rhonin - if you adapt for masks, then he can follow them as they run through, if you give him tomes - he totally ignores defensive mechanics on models like seamus/killjoy. Nobody ever thinks of disarm.

Just consider him against Killjoy - spend a turn studying him, while in defensive stance, with 8Df. If he gets a charge on you - he's more than likley going to miss, idealy flipping you out of combat. Then adapt for tomes the following turn, and then on the first charge, you're at +2 flips, and the rest, you're automatically on +1. His ability to hunt through cards against damn near anybody is nuts. This logic applys against anything else big with low Df. He never misses them, he ignores their defensive abilitys, and on severe, he does real damage. Against people without such mechanics - adapting for rams is a solid choice. 3/4/6 is not to be sniffed at. Especially when it has 7-8 Cb. Nor is 2/3/5 to be sniffed at when that model has 10Cb.

Also - consider how fragile the Viktorias/Rhonin are. Take the biggest, scariest thing the opponent has and lock it in combat with a fully buffed Bishop. If it swings at him, best case scenario - it misses. Worst, they lose two cards/take some damage back. If they try to leave - he locks them tight to his chest with a 1" melee range, meaning that they are far less able to threaten your squishy things. Which are squishy.

So - in short. I think he rocks, but nobody's using him right >.>

EDIT:

I would not bring him in a game where you need to take 3 or 4 corners.

Hangonaminute. What? How exactly do you propose somebody removes bishop from a table quarter he's got his mind set on not leaving? 8Df in stance is practically impossible to kill. Furthermore - he lets you redistribute models with reletive ease - due to his low weak damage, late game he can charge a bunch of your models and throw them to where they need to be. Or, if your opponent's playing reconnoiter, he can throw something - charge it again, throw it, charge it again and then smack it. Keeping it in combat with him and locking it there. Hell - if he can throw two models next to each other and hold them in combat, maybe slow one or two of them. Even better! The possibilitys are endless, as soon as people stop whinging about his low damage band

Edited May 8, 2010 by Omadon

[TimeLapse]

I

Hangonaminute. What? How exactly do you propose somebody removes bishop from a table quarter he's got his mind set on not leaving? 8Df in stance is practically impossible to kill. Furthermore - he lets you redistribute models with reletive ease - due to his low weak damage, late game he can charge a bunch of your models and throw them to where they need to be. Or, if your opponent's playing reconnoiter, he can throw something - charge it again, throw it, charge it again and then smack it. Keeping it in combat with him and locking it there. Hell - if he can throw two models next to each other and hold them in combat, maybe slow one or two of them. Even better! The possibilitys are endless, as soon as people stop whinging about his low damage band

Well in my local tournaments I always have about 25-30ss to take the table corners and I prefer to have more models on the table. The point was not questioning weather or not he can hold a table edge I just think in this scenario that his points are better served getting 2 more ronin so that you can cover more ground with more models.

Don’t get me wrong I love bishop and will always add him to my Viks lists if I can afford his high cost, and that is what it comes down to spending 10ss on one model in a 20-25ss game is tough.

I do agree that in the Vik list Bishop is kickass.

[poulpox]

I've just received my model and i think it has great potential. I play Zoraida, but I see Bishop as a good alternative to Juju, yes, even for 11SS; Juju tends to get killed actually quite easily when you consider facing factions with good shooting, and flurry isn't as great as melee expert. I think even with 2 Wds less Bishop is more likely to survive. Juju can come back yes, and it has helped me in the past, but I think Bishop is going to be a really good alternative to add more flavour! However I agree that in small size scraps it might not be a best idea, but we usually play 35SS, so no excuse!

T.

[Gremlin Swarm]

Bishop's big thing is, in a word, versatility.

As someone talked about already, he can basically pick which trigger(s) he'll get off turn to turn.

By himself, he may not seem so great, but when he's backing up other models...

I was teaching a friend of mine the game's mechanics, and we threw together a couple of models on the fly, Bishop being one of them. He was hell on wheels.

With actual planning, he'd be even better (as would any model, really).

As with any moderately costly or expensive model, though, you've got to be careful about choosing him for a small game (as I think someone already mentioned above).

[AkumaKaze]

In many ways Bishop is my go-to guy! I have dropped a Steamborg Executioner in one on one combat with his measly damage output! He is very versatile in many situations and can easily act as a two for one model when you need him to. He is good at zoning, good at hitting, good at defending, and has 10 Wd. If I put him in an objective based game he can lock down an area by himself if need be. Yes, he is expensive, but every point is worth it.

[DangerousBeans]

Bishop scares the crap out of me, there's seemingly nothing he can't handle. He does have a hell of a lot of rules so I'd imagine it's a case of practising with him and getting to know what to do in any given situation.

He is mighty pricey though, and can't see him making his points back in smaller games. If you like the model and have gone to the bother of painting him them just give him a few whirls.

[tenabrae]

I personally think he's fantastic. He's one of the most versatile models in the game. However - his purpose, for the most part, is not plain damage throughput. Paired with Rhonin - if you adapt for masks, then he can follow them as they run through, if you give him tomes - he totally ignores defensive mechanics on models like seamus/killjoy. Nobody ever thinks of disarm.

Other than his huge cost, he's one of those models that's good once he's activated... hit him before he powers up and he can't do much about it. He's also funny to cast Obey on.