Nicodem List, thoughts?

[Soulreclaimer]

Playing in a 30pt scrap. I have the box set. A vulture and Killjoy.

I was trying to fit in Killjoy and came up with this list.

28 pts 2 left over for a total of 5 Soulstones.

Nicodem

Vulture

Mortimer

Punk Zombie

Canine Remains

Killjoy

I could also drop the Canine Remains and add another vulture.

Thoughts?

[chaosobscuros]

I love the two vulture approach myself. With their movement, you can cover both flanks quickly, and pop out Killjoy where he will do the most damage. Plenty of people that are far better players than I will give you all kinds of other tactics for the vultures, but I feel that the vultures should know their place. They are nothing more than sacrificial fodder for Killjoy.

[Zethal]

I'm not sure how limited you are by models; you mention you only have the box sex (I assume Nicodem's) but are playing with a dog so maybe you can proxy.

The first thing I would do is drop Mortimer. The guy just doesn't cut it, the best things he has is Fresh Meat and Zombie Companion besides that something does he what does but better. Weak shooting, decent melee (but you can get better from many models all cheaper), horrid summoning.

I'd add another pZombie in his place and you can add another vulture if you want or a second doggy as Pack Mentality and Hunting Dogscan be very nice and Nicodem has better things to be making than more dogs. Dogs can sac themselves for Killjoy as well and do nearly as good a job of getting in position.

Another pZombie also gives you a spread of where Killjoy might come up if you expect to summon him through slow to die.

Not a giant fan of fielding two vultures, they won't ever cast one of Nicodem's spells, either due to suit requirements or the CC being so high. Casting through them can be useful but takes one of their actions and requires a specific activation order (which is much more difficult to utilize if the vulture ended up out of 6" due to picking up counters or being Eyes and Ears from the last round, and spells getting -3 Ca limits this to pretty much to soulstoned or cheated decay's and fog.

Hope this was helpful.

[bsantucci]

I would say play a few games. I would play the box plus the vulture. The rest in soulstones. The punks are powerful if you can paralyze a victim. Keep making zombies!!!

[kbdrand]

I'm not sure how limited you are by models; you mention you only have the box sex (I assume Nicodem's) but are playing with a dog so maybe you can proxy.

The first thing I would do is drop Mortimer. The guy just doesn't cut it, the best things he has is Fresh Meat and Zombie Companion besides that something does he what does but better. Weak shooting, decent melee (but you can get better from many models all cheaper), horrid summoning.

I'd add another pZombie in his place and you can add another vulture if you want or a second doggy as Pack Mentality and Hunting Dogscan be very nice and Nicodem has better things to be making than more dogs. Dogs can sac themselves for Killjoy as well and do nearly as good a job of getting in position.

Another pZombie also gives you a spread of where Killjoy might come up if you expect to summon him through slow to die.

Not a giant fan of fielding two vultures, they won't ever cast one of Nicodem's spells, either due to suit requirements or the CC being so high. Casting through them can be useful but takes one of their actions and requires a specific activation order (which is much more difficult to utilize if the vulture ended up out of 6" due to picking up counters or being Eyes and Ears from the last round, and spells getting -3 Ca limits this to pretty much to soulstoned or cheated decay's and fog.

Hope this was helpful.

Without Mortimer Nicodem can't get the corpse counters he needs to summon his undead friends. Why the heck would you run Nicodem without Mortimer?

[ProdigalPunk]

I am on the fence about Mort as well. However law of averages says he will in 6 turns only make about 1.5 corpse counters. For the 7 points you could buy three dogs and just off them for three counters, or have Sebastian and he could make a dog every other turn. In my opinion Mort needs to pull his weight a little more then just the corpse counters.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Without Mortimer Nicodem can't get the corpse counters he needs to summon his undead friends. Why the heck would you run Nicodem without Mortimer?

Sure you can.

You just have to make sure models die. Yours or your opponents.

[kyleb]

I agree with Zethal on Mort. He is pretty week considering Sebastian is 1 soulstone cheaper and just as good at killing or better. Plus he can res dogs well and can heal undead if he has some body parts. Corpse counters never seem to be a problem for me, their mindless and walk right up to you.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

I agree with Zethal on Mort. He is pretty week considering Sebastian is 1 soulstone cheaper and just as good at killing or better. Plus he can res dogs well and can heal undead if he has some body parts. Corpse counters never seem to be a problem for me, their mindless and walk right up to you.

You underestimate the power of Mortimer's Ranged Attack...

[Zethal]

I don't think we are. A Cb of four is the lowest ranged in the game, granted there is also more Ranged Cb 4 than anything else by a good margin.

Two minor damage is pretty much standard, and the against an experienced opponent a single blast marker will only very rarely catch more than one model, especially if there is a threat of Decay. Of course single blasts seem to excel if fired into combat. Allowing you to hit your opponent even if you hit your own model, and not hit your model if you do hit your opponent (and maybe another one of the opponents). But with a Cb of 4 the extra Df can really matter.

In context of the army he is one of few models with a ranged attack. But if I was really worried about my speed or ranged capability I would snag some Crooked Men or more dogs.

His ranged attack is certainly not enough reason to take him, and the rest of his abilities and stats leave him sub-par until you can justify his point cost in large games where Fresh Meat! becomes down right scary.

[kbdrand]

I've played against the Nicodem/Mortimer combo where every single turn Mortimer got a corpse counter and Nicodem was able to summon something (not the mindless zombie spell, the one that actually summons good stuff). So basically in that game Nicodem went from a 30 point list to a 45-50 point list. We were joking that at the end even though I killed half of his models he was still sitting at around 30 points.

I personally think the free corpse counters are what makes Mortimer excel.

[Zethal]

I've played against the Nicodem/Mortimer combo where every single turn Mortimer got a corpse counter and Nicodem was able to summon something (not the mindless zombie spell, the one that actually summons good stuff). So basically in that game Nicodem went from a 30 point list to a 45-50 point list. We were joking that at the end even though I killed half of his models he was still sitting at around 30 points.

I personally think the free corpse counters are what makes Mortimer excel.

While this type of luck can certainly happen, it is an extreme rarity. Expecting to happen would be silly and relying on it to happen foolish.

You are talking about something that only happens 1/4 (assuming he casts the spell, which he fails nearly half the time, 25 of the 54 in the deck fail to cast, without cheating) of the time happening 6 times in a row. Then on top of that having Nicodem be able to use that corpse counter each turn to summon something is an extreme event in and of its self. He needs to flip or cheat one of 6 cards that are in the deck each round to summon.

I'd rather build my lists around what I can reliably expect to happen instead of what potentially happens once every million games or so.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Zethal

[kbdrand]

We have played 4 different games with Mortimer and he has only failed to get a corpse counter twice (with cheating included). I'm not sure where you are getting the 1/4th figure. Out of the number of times that Nicodem has tried to summon something we've seen about a 50% success rate at least. Remember you can cheat and use soulstones and Nicodem can try 3 times a turn to cast that spell.

[Zethal]

Then you are either playing the spell wrong are you have one lucky Resurrectionist player.

Once Mortimer casts Exhume he flips a card, if that card is a Crow you get a counter, if not nothing happens. ~1/4 of the deck is Crows (13/54), you can not cheat this flip. This is where the 1/4 number comes from.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Zethal

[kbdrand]

Where does it say you cannot cheat that flip?

[Zethal]

There is no default rule that says we can always cheat a flip. The rule book tells us when we are allowed to cheat a flip, and the effect on Exhume it does not allow us to do so.

Most rules questions have been asked by now it seems. So using forum search can often help you understand how things function more clearly if there is any ambiguity. Clarification by a Wyrd Rules Marshall can be found here.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10159&highlight=exhume

Edited April 7, 2010 by Zethal
typo

[kbdrand]

My Bad. I guess we were playing it from the standpoint that you can cheat fate unless it tells you that you cannot

[HandsomeDan]

So with exhume off the table I have to agree Mortimer seems staunchly on the underwhelming side. Fresh meat seems to be his most powerful ability by far, but Morty's cost would mean I would only think about using it in a pretty high points level game. Even then he's only Wk 4 so and there's no telling if he'll be where you want most of your force to go. Although I guess if Nicodem's going to be in the back field summoning things he could get them up a lot faster.

[Zethal]

With Fresh Meat! he doesn't have to be to close to your forces, nor even really the target as the range is 15". The effect allows all friendly undead in play to move up to their wk toward the target. Which is quite amazing. If you are holding two high Masks he might even successfully get it off twice.

Then with Zombie Companion he can activate a whole pack of Dogs which just got a bonus 6" or maybe 12" of movement, Nicodem, or a pZombie or even Killjoy.

But yeah, he just doesn't seem worth it in Crews less than ~40-50+.

[Soulreclaimer]

Isn't the only time you can cheat fate is in a duel? Meaning I don't think you can cheat his exhume.

The list is actually for my son and I think I am going to build it this way.

Nicodem

Vulture

Punk Zombie

Punk Zombie

Punk Zombie

Killjoy

This comes to 28 pts since Killjoy is undead Nicodem gets him for 11 pts getting Nicodem 5 Soulstones to start the game with.

[Spoon]

I am a fellow Nicodem player myself, and I have had a fair amount of luck with the following 30pt list so far.

Nicodem

Punk Zombie

Punk Zombie

Necropunk

Necropunk

Vulture

Killjoy

The 4 "attackers" all have slow to die which lets you sac them when they die for killjoy. Also, the necropunks get to where they are going a bit faster than other models. Another bonus is this list gives you 4 soulstones to work with! Don't forget, necropunk dies, Nicodem summons a Punk Zombie from its corpse. Nicodem Rocks!!!

[Zethal]

Wow, I want to be the Lord of Pants. How do I dispute your title?

[kyleb]

I think you just have to prove that you rule over more pants than he does. Maybe start a pants war and raid his cotton factory?

[Spoon]

You don't, it is undisputable. I however grant you both the title "Undisputed Lords of Slacks" wear them with pride!

Anyway, just tested the list I mentioned a bit ago, and it whupped some butt! I will post more ideas as I get them!

[SuicideCommando]

Chances are your pants are not as fancy as the pair

Of very fancy pants that Mr. Fancy Pants will wear

When everybody's marching in the fancy pants parade

He's gonna pass the test

He's gonna be the best

The best in terms of pants