mattausten86 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 i have an idea how to run Leveticus,but knowing me ive got it completley wrong...... here goes draw your cards at the start of the 1st turn,then summon a waif,make sure you keep it safe,if possible get Leveticus into combat and get him killed. start of the next turn,if he did die,draw your maximum hand,then continue with your turn,then at the start of the closing phase,summon Leveticus. and so forth. like i said before ive probbably got it completley wrong. cheers matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerousBeans Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Leveticus gives me a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Nope you have it 100% right sans one thing: you don't necessarily want to get leveticus in melee. I find his melee is more of a good reason for people not to get into melee with him rather than something i'm searching out. Besides, unnatural wasting is far, far nastier. Note too that you CAN kill yourself with death's lessons and Desloation. This is because the WD's that leveticus takes happen as a result of what you do with the action, and the wounds occur at the end of the action once completed. The other stuff he can't use to kill himself, only those two. This is your ace in the hole. Almost every turn you want to be blowing leveticus' wad of cards landing your spells, making SPA's and waifs, and doing wds to the enemy, but you also want to make sure that your waifs are safe, and that by the end of the start close phase you have 1 wd left, or are dead. If that happens, bamf, you recycle and go back to a waif. Note that its actually detrimental for you NOT to kill yourself every turn because you don't draw up cards unless alyce is within 3".... so you're better off making sure you die each and every turn if possible, so long as you can keep your waifs safe. What i like to do to make sure that i am going to die every turn is: - necromantic sacrifice for 2 wd and a free walk. - cast blessing of desolation on something for 1 wd. - If possible, entropic transformation to create a waif or SPA for 3wd, or unnatural wasting enemy for 0 wd. We're either at 6 or 3 right now. - If i unnaturaled before, i'll necrotic unmaking another target for 1 Wd. Now we're at 7 (and thus end close will kill us), or 6. - Finally, death lesson's myself out for 1-3, whatever is needed. Honestly, there are ton of ways to take yourself out. Think of your melee ability as a deterrent more than an offensive (unless you're sitting on the red joker and a high hand of cards and have a soul stone, in which case swing away, cheat fate with a high card, burn soulstone to add to total, cheat fate on damgae with red joker, flip to add, hope for severe, and cackle as you do 24 points of damage). He is very very powerful once you get the hang of him, but he is an order of operations nightmare, and all your plans can be undone by the waif getting killed. In return, you get an amazing direct damage master, good swarm production master, and a master no one wants to risk getting into melee with important pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Mamba Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Haight, that was a very helpful write-up. I have wanted to play Leveticus for awhile, but haven't tried yet because I couldn't figure out quite how to do it. Your advice is really useful. It sounds like it will still take a good deal of practice to get used to running him, but you've provided a clear strategy to try to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattausten86 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thank you for that,its really cleared some stuff up for me. cheers matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) You are welcome guys. I have heard rumblings that he's really tough to figure out - i'm lucky that i just clicked with him on the first read through. Other important notes: 1) Waifs - For one thing, when you summon one, they only get 1 AP that activation, and have to walk with it. Be mindful of that. 1a) If leve is not in play and your waif hasn't activated, it can't do anything, so do NOT kill off leve if you need to reposition your waif. Luckily the waif has companion (leve), so this isn't that hard to really manipulate, but it is really important to remember, because it can lose you games if you kill leve too early and your waifs are exposed. Particularly against S'ommer and Lilith and other masters with uber movement chicanery. 2) Take advantage of your varied minion pool!! I can't stress this enough. I talk with people about leve, and they're all "All SPA and desolation engine all the time!" This to me is needlessly limiting. Sure, i take SPA's with leve, and in bigger games consider a deso engine (though frankly i prefer the 4 SPA's split up for attack / activation economy reasons, and the fact i can use thier tokens if they get killed to make new ones and spawn a deso engine upfield, turn 2-4 so that the engine isn't taking needless wounds). For one thing, i don't leave home without a Rotten Belle. Lure with them and leveticus is DIRTY. Abuse the crap out of it. When you consider that you can turn unnatrural wasting into threat range 10+3 to 5 on average, it is worth every last one of the 4 points. Also consider Punk zombies. At 5 points they are cheap uber good melee, and are great to combo with Blessings of Desolation, as they already have 7 Crows for CB. This means if you give them blessing and they kill something with a melee strike, they will automatically spawn an SPA. Moreover, you want to ensure you take a couple undead models in you crew - even cheapies - just in case your waif gets killed off, so that you have a method of generating a self-engineered waif with necrotic transformation. Even a sole necropunk or canine remains for this very purpose is a cheap model that can serve ancillary roles if you don't need it, but in a pinch can rocket back towards leve quickly and with minimal effort for you to get a necrotic transformation off on it. In this same vein, don't be afraid to Desolation your own crap, kill it, and then follow up with a necrotic transformation. Great way to quickly hurt yourself and get your waif back. Dont' leave home without Alyce. Period. Not only is she uber good shooting and denial, but she's additional swarm mechanisms, anti armor, reactivation for constructs, and draw power for you. Seriously - she's the best 8 points leve can spend. Finally, soulstones have lesser import for leve because he recycles. I personally feel very comfortable with 1-3, and i aim for 2 at anything less than 40 stones. Because you can recycle, you are in a lesser position of "do or die" than other masters are typically. Edited October 31, 2009 by Haight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarmaladeChainsaw Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Wow, Haight. That is very thorough. I was just looking at our man last night, and thinking he'd be fun as hell to play. Good tips here, I'll have to try some of em out. -MC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Wow, Haight. That is very thorough. I was just looking at our man last night, and thinking he'd be fun as hell to play. Good tips here, I'll have to try some of em out. -MC No problem - if you have any finer points or questions you want answered, please feel free to post. I am lucky that he just "clicked" with me, and i've had a high degree of success wrapping my head around him. He is really not so hard to use as people think if you keep the above points in mind. But please, feel free to post questions, and i'll be more than happy to post my thoughts (which usually foments good point and counter point from others too!). Used well, Leve is disgustingly powerful, and used properly he is a royal pain in the ass for any crew to handle. -- haight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 What are you guys using to proxy the Waifs and SPAs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 i use a sorrow for a waif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 IMO, Cryx Scrap Thralls are ideal for Steampunk Abominations as they pretty much fit the description: http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=prp_wmc_cyx_sol_211_000# As for Hollowed Waifs, I personally have just been using some Heresy Miniatures zombies, but a better option might be Wyrd's Apparitions from the Twisted range: http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=pro&pre=wrd_mfx_ttd_ttd_141_000 Altho, they don't really look HT1. :embarasse At least they represent the "shackled" rule pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattausten86 Posted December 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Im using the twisted apiriations(or however you spell it from the twisted range) and for the time being either Sp arachnids or zombie dogs for SPA's,because i have a tonne of them lying around doing naff all. cheers matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 After 3 more games with Levi ... i need help... Can someone explain to me how you can actually get to 7 wounds before the end of the turn in the first 1-3 turns... Secondly, how on earth do you keep the waif alive? It has to stay within 10" of levi and when levi dies that potnetially puts him out of the game again. I had levi and the waif killed in 1 round from bad juju with landslide... Not to mention the horror that is perdita... Help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Can someone explain to me how you can actually get to 7 wounds before the end of the turn in the first 1-3 turns... I don't have the book in front of me but when I've proxied Leve, it has always been frighteningly easy to kill him every single round. Firstly, you'll want to use his free walk, for a wound. Then cast some spells that cause them, then use the (0) ability he's got that lets you look at cards and put them back on the deck for between 1-3 wounds. Usually I seem to have the opposite problem to you in that there's lots of stuff I wanna do with him that will kill him off too quickly!! Especially if the enemy has also damaged me. Secondly, how on earth do you keep the waif alive? It has to stay within 10" of levi and when levi dies that potnetially puts him out of the game again. I had levi and the waif killed in 1 round from bad juju with landslide... Not to mention the horror that is perdita... When you summon Leve to a Waif, you can summon him up to 6" away from it. His free walk is only 3", so he'll be 9" away from it then; if you wanna double walk Leve then either companion the Waif and move it first, or make damn sure that Leve dies during his activation so that you can't move your Waif but it won't die either! I always try and put them behind LOS blocking terrain. Obviously Perdita will always be a problem because she can bullet bend to hit the Waif and it's DF is pretty shoddy. but then Perdita is a PITA for everyone!! Try to get a second Waif on the board and hide it somewhere far at the back; activate it last and make damned sure that Leve is dead by that point, so that the Waif doesn't disappear and he has the option of spawning to it. EDIT: Also, perhaps try to get the offensive off on Perdita; Leve has a few spells that directly cause damage or straight up death, one or two don't have resists either so her DF8 won't save her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 I don't have the book in front of me but when I've proxied Leve, it has always been frighteningly easy to kill him every single round. Firstly, you'll want to use his free walk, for a wound. Then cast some spells that cause them, then use the (0) ability he's got that lets you look at cards and put them back on the deck for between 1-3 wounds. Usually I seem to have the opposite problem to you in that there's lots of stuff I wanna do with him that will kill him off too quickly!! Especially if the enemy has also damaged me. With the free walk (2WD), the deck inspection (0) action for 1-3 and blessing of desolation for 1 thats only 4-6 wounds. You take 1 at the closing phase so thats 5-7. With the limited range on him spell wise i am finding that he does not die until the 2nd turn and on that turn he does nothing as all his spells deal you damage and he can't knock himself off casting them! So its the 3rd turn before he gets a draw and sees any action. Then - since the waif is resummoned 6" from Levi and can only walk once, its generally in the firelines and i loose both in 1 turn. It happened 3 games in a row! I know i need to try again (and again!) but its getting frustrating. Ramos was a pain but i think i have that now (Alyce FTW with Ramos!) but Levi is proving even more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Okey, a basic one, that you do first turn hopefully, is: - (+1 Casting Expert) Blessings of Desolation = 1WD - (1) Blessings of Desolation = 1WD - (1) Blessings of Desolation = 1WD - (+1) Necromantic Sacrifice = 2WD - (0) Death's Lessons (3 Cards) = 3WD TOTAL: 8WD (Death!!) If you fluff up any of the Blessings, you'll be left on 7WD, which will still kill him in the end close phase. So do do this, you'll need between two or three 7+:tomes or 7+:crows Another trick of course is to leave him with a wound anyway, and having put blessings of desolation on a nearby Steampunk Abomination, strike Leveticus with it (he's only DF2!). This will not only kill Leveticus but give you another Steampunk Abomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haight Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) NoSignal definitely has the right of it. As long as you hold onto death's lessons for your last thing you do, you only need to have incurred 5 wounds, which is very very easy to do with leveticus. There are a LOT of ways to burn leveticus out. Frankly, i'm at the point where burning him out is not the issue - its doing everything that needs to get done that turn BEFORE i get burnt out. Edited December 14, 2009 by Haight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 There are a LOT of ways to burn leveticus out. Frankly, i'm at the point where burning him out is not the issue - its doing everything that needs to get done that turn BEFORE i get burnt out. Yeah, especially if the enemy has gotten the initiative and somehow managed to hit Leve with an attack or two. If he ever activates and already has damage on him it can really botch up his plans. :dead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massaen Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Another trick of course is to leave him with a wound anyway, and having put blessings of desolation on a nearby Steampunk Abomination, strike Leveticus with it (he's only DF2!). This will not only kill Leveticus but give you another Steampunk Abomination. Um... you can't attack your own master though?!? Otherwise - very helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) Um... you can't attack your own master though?!? Oops, yeah you're right, I'd completely missed that. Found it now on P.g.54 under "declaring a target..." :bandit: Edited December 15, 2009 by n0signal Actually read the rulebook. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omadon Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 nnoooooo! Levi was a prime target for a blessed Sybelle. D: Hm. Going to have to make more agressive use of boobytraps. Hm - question. P54 only seems to apply to Strike targets, IE: Basic melee/ranged weapons. If this is true, then does it apply to magic? No such text is present in the spell targeting rules. Furthermore. Levi soo needs some kind of peculiar relationship rule with alice that permits her to punch him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 By the sounds of it, the FAQ could be doing away with the "can't kill your master" thing, which would make playing Leve a whole heap simpler. heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omadon Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Not necesserily simpler. He gains more options as a result of this - it seems some people presume that the finer points of playing levi are exclusivley when he's supposed to die. With the ability to kill him, his body becomes a resource that you can exploit. Blessing something and killing him + one of his waifs, leaving the second to anchor him gives you access to alot of SPAs. Also, in all honesty - I think the methods of killing him so far, beyond just using his magic has been rather awkward. Dodgy use of boobytraps dosent sound right. Implying it makes him more straightforward to play doesnt necessarily apply. Implying that it makes him a better master on the other hand would be entirley accurate ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n0signal Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Another thing I thought of earlier, is that in a typical Leveticus build, unless you're keeping him alive during the turn (with 1 Wd remaining so that he dies in the Close Phase) you're not gonna get any Corpse or Scrap counter drops. Leveticus has Graverobber and Scavenger. Alyce doesn't have either. Nor do the Abominations or Desolation Engine. Neither do Necropunks or Punk Zombies. Neither does Bete Noir, etc. Basically, if you're activating Leve early, so that you can put Blessings of Desolation on things, then kill him off... there will be no Corpse or Scrap drops for the rest of the turn. Only Desolate Warping will get you new Steampunk Abominations... as for getting the extra Hollowed Waif onto the board, I've no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omadon Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Traditionally I just use Levi's corpse from turn one on turn two. All I need from there on is SPAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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