n0signal

Sounds good to me!! Great list.

Due to having "too many fingers in too many pies" and there being lots of new stuff coming out that I've got my eye on (Hamelin master - yes please!!)... I am selling this crew on eBay. :afro: Not gonna put an link in, as it probably violates forum policy, so you'll have to search for it if you're interested.

Out of interest, will there be another/alternative sculpt of Hamelin in his master form; or do we continue to use the current model but with shiny new rules?

TBH, Som'er already has a Cache of '0' and a control hand cap of 5 cards... so for Henchmen to be not-as-powerful, they'd have to be seriously gimped!!

Well, it has hit the Errata page now. *sigh* In my worst case scenario I'd expected a "place Levi in base contact and sacrifice the Waif" type deal; this replace malarkey is going to slow Levi down to a crawl and make his turn extremely predictable (lots of walking and trying to make Waifs from corpse tokens!!). Urgh. Either that, or because my Waifs are positioned so that Levi can actually get stuck in next turn, someone will just kill them off and spank Levi; I already have to contend with very little scenery when I face some of my shootier opponents. I might have to reserve Levi for when the table is ultra-dense with terrain now.

I would just like to say that: a.) This errata seems fair enough, no complaints here as I've only ever dragged SPA's with other SPA's anyway. b.) It's starting to p**s me off a bit now, all this "secret" errata that is floating around and not making it into the errata PDF or the "extra errata" thread in the rules forum. Can we please have updated rules ASAP, without having to learn about them on a card or a off-hand comment by a Marshal. AFAIK there are still outstanding bits of errata for Leveticus that was mentioned, well, months ago now, which still haven't surfaced!!

Urgh, I have Bad Juju in my Zoraida crew and I have to say, I'm not a fan. He's just over-costed for a slooooow, no-melee-expert, only-hard-to-wound-1 model; that costs you an extra 2 soul stones to use his "special ability". I'd much rather take the Hooded Rider... when it comes out.

I find this odd considering that I too have a mini Feldherr case for my Malifaux and everything that's on a 30mm base fits in perfectly; and I have all sorts of models from different crews, some perched on quite tall micro-art studio bases!! (EDIT:) When I say they fit perfectly, I think this is in fact what you are calling "squish into the foam" as I am always after cases where the miniatures are held rigid in the foam and have no room to rattle about. They do indeed squish into the foam a bit, to keep them still in transport. I picked up the version of this case that is double thickness, and the bottom part is full of diced foam to keep my Desolation Engine, Bad Juju, Killjoy, etc. large 50mm/40mm models.

Well, to quote The Dude: "That's, just like, your opinion man!"

Regarding SPA's: I think they are indeed rubbish unless you commit to using them. If you take 4 of them, then on the first turn your can usually drag them across the board and drop a Desolation Engine on the opponent - with a reactivate off Alyce this can be devastating!! You've then got to work on creating more SPA's ASAP, so that once the Engine dies and poops out 2 SPA's, you have more nearby than can combine into another Engine. If you nimmy around just taking a couple of SPA's at the start, or none at all, then you'll struggle to create an Engine and the SPA's on their own are rubbish. When I build, I either go 4x SPA from the start or none at all!! Leveticus works with his own stuff or with Resurrectionist stuff just as well as each other TBH and there's no "correct" way to build his lists. I've had lots of success with Necropunks and Flesh Constructs as much as SPA's and the Engine. In answer to your question, in 25SS Alyce is a decent heavy hitter at range, and along with Leveticus provides all the punch you may need - meaning you can fill out the rest of the crew with manoeuvrable models to capture objectives, etc.

He does death!! He does death, buddy! *Ahem* Anyhoo, now that that is out of the way. Leveticus is like an alternative take on a Resurrectionist master, mixed in a little with some Arcanist style aggressive spell slinging. He's big on ranged spell damage, but in an odd way that often directly causes wounds (no damage flips) and circumvents things like armour. He also reanimates things, but again, he does it by killing things or making his minions reanimate stuff... by killing things. He even kills himself; and loves it!! So when I said he does death, I wasn't lying.

Well, others will no doubt disagree with me here (and they're probably much more experienced Neverborn players so you should probably listen to them - I only play Zoraida in terms of Neverborn masters) but you should probably just take-it-easy and jump in with the Crew Box. You get three Silurids and Bad Juju, which comes to 25SS exactly; you'll also need to pick up a Voodoo Doll totem as she summons it for free during the game. IMO, Zoraida's crew box is themed very strongly to the Treasure Hunt or Claim Jump type scenarios, and the reason people swap out bits of it is for when you're trying to get Slaughter or Assassinate off - Zoraida can pull off the latter quite well by herself tho, by stacking the deck in her favour (with Crystal Ball) and Obeying an enemy model to attack their own master. But still... if you want punch then you'll often struggle with her crew box. Bad Juju is over-costed yeah, definitely. But this is because you're paying for him to come on anywhere on the board, and have the potential to return for a couple of soulstones. As I say, for scenarios such as Claim Jump, Treasure Hunt or Breakthrough he's great, because he can often just appear where you need him. He is, however, frightfully slow, which is why you have the zippy Silurids. Other models I have used in my Zoraida crew are Hamelin and the Gremlins/Pigs. Hamelin, for me, was a bit of a let-down - he's extremely easy to kill because of his low defence and large base and the fact he'll be up front trying to Obey things. So, I found him way too much of a hassle for 10SS, but I'll have to try him again at some point in the future, maybe in larger games where there's more stuff to distract attention from him. The Gremlins I took because they give Zoraida a ranged option (12") and you can negate their bad aim and Whoops rule by Bewitching their target first (so that it can't cheat fate against them) - they proved to be quite good actually. I took the Warpig with her and I removed the Stampeding rule with Hex, so that I didn't have to worry about losing control over it, and I obeyed it quite a lot for extra charges or attacks. The Warpig is also good because it's fast, can heal itself with Eat Your Fill, has low Wp for Obeys and can remove Corpse/Scrap counters.

Leveticus isn't actually very hard to play once you get his order of operations down; when you've had a few games with him, he just "clicks" and makes sense. The errata that he's had, if you notice, have all been to make him continue playing the ways he always has. I.e. Desolation and Death's Lessons could always kill him - the errata just made it more explicit. Judging the comments made by Weird Sketch in this thread, Eternally Shackled is about to get some errata that will make it play similarly/the same as how many of us have been playing it anyway. I'd say that Leveticus is actually one of the most solidly designed masters... especially when I compare him to my other two crews, Zoraida and Som'er Teeth, who've changed quite drastically in many areas!!

The same reason I wear black shoes I guess - it goes with any other colour.

*head a splode* I think I'll avoid playing Levi until this new errata then. All very confusing at the moment! (Place... place where!?)

@Omadon: Your tone is a little aggressive towards some people on this thread; even though you're essentially correct in your arguments. I'd suggest adopting a slightly more courteous tone otherwise people will be naturally resilient to your suggestions/opinions - which would be a shame, because as I said - you're essentially correct in your assumptions.

Ah, but despite saying "may activate" in the turn it was summoned, I'm sure somewhere else in the book it says that models HAVE to activate and spend all their AP each turn, and that if you do nothing with them, you've effectively used all their AP for (1)Pass actions. So, with most things that are summoned, whether you choose to activate them and do something with them or not, they have activated and have had their (-1)Slow activation. Levi can't activate on that turn, due to it being the closing phase, so his (-1)Slow is carried over to the next turn. That is how I read it, logically speaking. (BTW, I've pretty much been playing this incorrectly along with most people in this thread, but now it's been pointed out to me, I can see how it all fits together - just gotta accept that you've been playing wrong and adapt next time you do.)

LOL. I always thought it seemed like Leveticus had a lot of AP; this clarification makes a lot of sense, balance-wise. He is an incredibly powerful master, so being slow in exchange for cheating death constantly seems fair.

On the subject of Raven, I've been after a suitable model for Zoraida to turn into but have thus far found nothing that I like. Any ideas people? I could of course just use a status token/counter but a model of a raven would be much cooler.

Heh, Thanks for all the comments guys - I'd forgotten about this thread completely. The last thing I finished painting for my Zoraida crew was a second Silurid, which I'll post up on here later along with a WIP group shot- I've still got to put any paint on Bad Juju and the third Silurid is about 40% done. It's funny actually, because I've been painting Infinity miniatures lately and have fallen behind with my Malifaux Battle Challenge on TGN (I'm painting a greyscale Leveticus Crew) but I'd been debating dropping everything else and finishing the Zoraida crew anyway, so that I'd have at least one fully-painted crew finished. I think the resurrection of this thread might spur me on.

I've used Hamelin with Zoraida once (the one and only time my Hamelin has seen the board thus far) and he was decent - it was a bit overkill on the Obey's tho TBH (Zoraida already has access to two with her totem!) and I found myself wanting a straight damage dealer more in the end. Still, I'll give him another go, I think it very much depends on the crew opposite you - if they're effective at killing themselves via Obey then he's great, otherwise it's a lot of points invested in something that can kill by itself aside from walking you to the board edge.

Actually, this is one thing that you can't do IIRC. All the spells and triggers that create SPA's target enemy models or scrap counters - the Canine Remains is neither. Hell, if you want to make a Hollowed Waif out of it, you have to kill it first so that it's a corpse counter, otherwise you can't target it. It's much more efficient, IMO, to use Leveticus's own corpse (from turn two onwards) to create the second Waif, which you'll need the dog for the counter drop. Also, I used the super-fast doggies last night to collect all the nearby corpse counters and give them to Leveticus, so that Seamus couldn't get his grubby hands on them and make more Belles - so that's another utility of them Vs Resurrectionists. -------------------------------------------- Back on the subject of Flesh Constructs, another trick you can do with them is to cast Burn Out on them with Alyce, since they're constructs. It means that your normally hard to kill models will be starting next turn with only a single wounds but if you want the offensive punch then it could be worth it. Basically, it would get two activations to get into position and start making some attacks (aiming for Rend Flesh trigger so maybe put Blessings of Desolation on it too - then even it's most puny hit does 4Dg!!) and during the closing phase, you get another free attack (before Blessings expires) before next turn. That's a lot of damage potential, and possible master assassination stuff - which is worth the 7SS IMO.

BTW, as a follow up to a comment I made earlier in this thread - I've been running Flesh Constructs with Levi recently and they work really well with him. Aside from being able to automatically give them their Rend Flesh trigger via the +Cb:crows from Blessings of Desolation, he also usually has a crapola-load of cards to burn when you activate it. Also, because Leveticus can't keep hold of the Black Joker all game like other masters can, the Flesh Construct gives you a use for it - burn it when you activate the Construct to make it (+1)Fast for that turn. As I say, it's performed well in the last few games I'm run one in, and for 14SS I might try a couple of them together at some point.

Well it goes without saying that the Desolation Engine, Steampunk Abominations (either wait for official models or get some proxies in the meantime) and Hollow Waifs are all pretty much essential with Leveticus - you flat out NEED the Waifs and the SPA's are created by a few of his spells, and one of Alyce's.